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Throttle
Administrator



Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:13 pm      Reply with quote

Tone down the discussion of exact IG events and things that aren't common knowledge.

And really, I can't help but think that this all stems from the standard issue "someone's better off than me, therefore everything is broken and wrong" mentality that's always present. We had the same thing on Atonement -- as soon as the market became ruled by PCs instead of NPCs, people were suddenly wildly opposed to it. Some players just cannot tolerate the notion that other PCs have an advantage over theirs and will make up hyperboles and imaginary issues to try and argue their case. I don't see any issues that need to be addressed. It most certainly isn't anywhere near "unplayable." Not a single person has suffered serious consequences for simply being independent so far, people just don't like the idea.

I really wish our players were better at playing for the setting rather than playing for themselves. When did documented and thematic game elements become things that had to be complained about outside of the game? If this were a medieval fantasy game, should the players of peasants post long rants about how lame it is that the lord gets to be more powerful and wealthy? If you choose not to play in a clan, you are that peasant. You might be able to claw your way up to some wealth and influence through hard work or smart moves, but please... just please try not to regard every grain of inequality as a broken thing that needs to be changed.

As for what clanleads do, that's entirely up to them. The canon doesn't say that they must be enemies, especially when it comes to the Reds and NG, two clans that have not historically been any more at odds than everyone in Rust tends to be. There's no canon that says they have to behave in a certain way, and anyway it's likely that you don't know half of what's really going on.

Anyone who chooses to play independent is expected to be aware that they are choosing an existence where they are not in charge of anything more than perhaps their own little business. It seems that literally anything that is the slightest inconvenience or inequality makes people cry foul. If you cannot handle being lower on the totem pole than others, don't pick a role that mandates it.


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Mannfreid
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:23 pm      Reply with quote

My complaint has 0 to do with them being better off then my Indie. They all should be.

I'll stop now. But I will keep my suggestion that the Admins really really should take a look at things and consider possibly having some indie gangs do things, or I don't know. Just watch. I'm honestly not complaining about them being better off.


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caellyndria
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:27 pm      Reply with quote

I can't believe someone using IG rumor and events is seriously basis for a damn forum discussion.

PEOPLE! Your PCs thoughts and ideas are not your own! The pieces of what you see IG are pieces! You will never, ever have the full picture or spectrum on other PCs and their activities, insights, and relationships unless you are an admin, even if you're spending the night with them.

There is a serious OOC butthurt going on and I don't care if people are denying it. It's getting fed by OOC communication and a severe misunderstanding of what playing a fictional role entails, and really, anyone who's feeding into that should be ashamed.

I don't care if this is a lecture on my part, it's just ridiculous. Know the lines, know your limits, know your opinion is your opinion, which probably shouldn't also be the opinion of your PC.


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Sabrelon
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:55 pm      Reply with quote

+1 For everything Throttle said, especially the point about playing for the game instead of yourselves. If it's starting to frustrate me, I can't possibly imagine how it's making the guys and gals who run put way more effort than is necessary into the game feel.

A lot of people are bothered by the power balance/difficulty/playability of things going on IG, but I would like to remind you that this is all shit that is explicitly that, IG. If you have an issue with balance or the economy, while some amount of auditing might fix it, I absolutely guarantee you that it's fixable IG, by you, right now, though it won't and shouldn't be easy. The Indies shouldn't have anything handed to them because, by virtue of their status, nothing is there to hand it to them, just like the Families shouldn't get shit handed to them because this is Rust and nothing is really handed out at random anyway. At least that was how it was at start.

If it's changed any since then it's because if IG events and circumstances, and that's where it should be kept, IG, because that's where they stem from and can be fixed.

What I'm saying is: If your character is poor, play a fucking poor character, and figure out a way to be rich. If they're not, roleplay that character as he is instead. If you can't make chips IG don't come cry foul as of you've been wronged OOCly. You can't make chips because you're an Indie and have no skills to give out. Or maybe you do and just haven't found a way to give them out, then that's an IC thing too, you should figure out how to do it IG.

The same goes for Family members. If you're poor, too bad, the Family feeds you and protects you, of you want chips and excess, find a way to make them beyond sitting around and waiting for them to come. If you can't, then maybe you should learn some skills that will let you or bribe/charm/intimidate someone into letting you fill that role/niche. I honestly think chips are too easy to get IG as it stands, and that's not because I think we should barter- I hate it, myself (at least doing it, the concept is cool), but because by no means -should- anyone have an excess of chips, especially not one individual.

Beyond that, it'd be really cool if people stepped away from this OOC stuff=fun stance. Or even worse, stuff=winning. I understand it can be enjoyable to have the most stuff and be the most badass IG, but I'm positive most everyone character would just be happy to have more food, let alone full Kevlar and a massive rifle. This is a game, and I know that stuff is necessary to keep it a game, but it's specifically Roleplay-Intensive, not "Make a thin vessel of a character whose sole purpose is to get as much shit as possible"-intensive. Unless you made your character and RP that way. In that case, fuck yeah, do it, just keep the setting in mind.

Also: I'd like to point out that prior to open it -was- implied that the Reds and NG were potentially getting buddy buddy, so I'd say the current goings on, whatever they are, are perfectly fine


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Sabrelon
Registered



Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:57 pm      Reply with quote

caellyndria wrote:
I can't believe someone using IG rumor and events is seriously basis for a damn forum discussion.

PEOPLE! Your PCs thoughts and ideas are not your own! The pieces of what you see IG are pieces! You will never, ever have the full picture or spectrum on other PCs and their activities, insights, and relationships unless you are an admin, even if you're spending the night with them.

There is a serious OOC butthurt going on and I don't care if people are denying it. It's getting fed by OOC communication and a severe misunderstanding of what playing a fictional role entails, and really, anyone who's feeding into that should be ashamed.

I don't care if this is a lecture on my part, it's just ridiculous. Know the lines, know your limits, know your opinion is your opinion, which probably shouldn't also be the opinion of your PC.


^

Shh, just ignore what I said and refer to that, it's much shorter and much more eloquent.


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Cohenator
Registered



Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:14 pm      Reply with quote

Mmmmm, when you turn on me and say I'm just an OOC cry baby, you're really not listening to what I'm saying.

Your players are basically ganging up on people and farming anyone who doesn't clan up.

It's like walking into the game and I'm already fucked.

To be specific, support the Red or the Guard, or join the Niners (and get bullied by the Red and Guard judging by what I've seen)... Or you can just delete your character, that's also acceptable for the Red and the Guard.


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Throttle
Administrator



Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:19 pm      Reply with quote

That's just ridiculous and doesn't even deserve a response.

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WorkerDrone
Registered



Duke Attitude

Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:20 pm      Reply with quote

I really...don't understand what you're trying to say, or argue, if you are arguing for something. Maybe you're just complaining, even though you attest "I'm not just a crybaby." If you were just complaining, that claim would hold up with more difficulty.

You app into the game with the full understanding that you start with no friends...you aren't scary or intimidating, and for sure, you aren't worth the trouble of going after unless you give reason to be got after, and yes, being successful and rich -is-, despite popular belief, a reason to be gone after. You have shit. People want shit.

The difficulty is, Families, even if they have less shit than you, by and large have EXPONENTIALLY more code power than you, and thus can roleplay that power and even exaggerate the scale of it into bullying (yeah, bullying!) other people into doing what they want.

Now from an OOC perspective, it's not that fun to watch people who KNOW they can pick on you, pick on you.

Also from an OOC perspective, I highly doubt anyone's targeting you, you -are-, I guarantee, seeing OOC enemies where there are none. No one cares that much. Sorry to say.

You made the character with full knowledge you weren't equal, nor should you assume you're well protected simply for existing. If you want protection, team up with other indies. Make a league. If someone tries to muscle in on you, get ten of your other friends to back you up. Maybe it won't be worth the trouble?

Until then, deal, handle it IC, leave it off the board.


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HAL
Administrator



Senior RPA

Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:33 pm      Reply with quote

Locking.

We have what we need to know staff side. If you are Independent and don't like getting bum-bumped, join a family or arrange protection. Don't bring specific IC stuff onto this forum. If you think staff favors one clan over another, you are foolish and probably don't realize that we don't have /time/ to favor and pamper one group over another. Politics goes in cycles. Check back in 4 months and the NG and the Niners will be allied, old clan leads will be dead, and Godzilla will rule Rust. Knee-jerk reactions in a two month old game are bad.

Give shit time.


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Holmes
Dictator in Absentia



Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:34 pm      Reply with quote

Wait, HAL, plan Gojira is a go?

Fuck, you need to give me more warning than that.


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