Navigation


Home
 
Register a new account  
Log in to view your messages  
Cybernetics: A fully-formed proposal
Forum Index   Θ   PRPI Public Development

Reply to Topic Create a Topic
grandpa
Registered



Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:05 pm      Reply with quote

So, one of the suggested systems that was going to be in the original, Venus-based Parallel was a system for cybernetics being acquired IG. We don't have that yet.

What is going to be here:

A fully-formed proposal, likely going through a first and final draft depending upon feedback.
A request for help in writing the echoes/coming up with reasonable requirements for at least thirteen crafts.
A rehashing of the RPP requirements/costs, e.g. what 'X RPP' can get you in cybernetics.
Discussion about the coded/RPA 'requirements'/weight for this system(hopefully: null/minimal, respectively), and how to minimize them.
Discussion about feasibility.
Discussion about the system itself, additions/classifications.

What isn't going to be here:
A discussion of RPP costs, whether they're fair, whether they should be involved, etc. It's not ours to decide, and doesn't fit in this thread. You can make a secondary thread. I'm creating this system using RPP as they are. http://forum.parallelrpi.com/viewtopic.php?p=7224#7224
Lore. I'm not sure the IC culture should even let it happen. That said, I'd appreciate if that sort of discussion was carried out in another thread.

Cybernetics: What they are
Cybernetics, for the purposes of this system, are divided into three distinct levels of quality, and four distinct types. Minor, moderate, and major cybernetics will require talented, adroit, and master skill-level for all the associated crafts. There will be internal cybernetics(organs, nerve-replacement), external cybernetics(Skin-replacements, plating), structural cybernetics(bones), and sensory cybernetics(audio/visual).



Cybernetics: How you acquire them.
Let's say you're Bob. Bob has a missing eye. Just one. He wants a cybernetic. He chooses a quality: minor. Then he has his friend Sally the Doctor work up a blueprint, design minor-cybernetic. This is in the cybernetics craftsuite, and she gets it and every other medical-related craft to start with. She's adroit, so she passes it without any problem, but if she was familiar or even beginner she could -try- to succeed. It has a 12-hour timer, success or fail. Sally gives that to Bob. Bob gives it to Gnash, the martian mechanic. He builds a frame--talented, 12 hour timer, and then wires it up, talented, 12-hour timer. Then there's a roleplay session, back to Sally/Bob. Bob takes 50% of his health, either in a wound(my preference), or in bloodloss damage, to represent the lengthy recovery from this extensive medical procedure. Optionally, he can now spend 2RPP for the minor cybernetic.

So, in ordered form...

1. Need(or want) a cybernetic.
2. Design the cybernetic. Craft.
3. Build the cybernetic. Craft.
4. Wire the cybernetic. Craft.
5. Install the cybernetic. Roleplay.
5a. Spend RPP for a benefit.
6. Heal up. Roleplay.


RPP: How they work, and cybernetics.
1RPP: Doesn't get you anything for cybernetics. Seems to be the cost of infravision.
2RPP: Minor cybernetic. Boosts: +1 Player's Choice, +1 Player's Choice, -1 Staff's Choice
3RPP: Moderate cybernetic. Boosts: +2 Player's Choice, +1 Staff's Choice, -1 Staff's Choice
4RPP: Major cybernetic. Boosts: +3 Player's Choice, +2 Staff's Choice, -2 Staff's Choice
5RPP+: Unknown.

Problem: There's a concern for people who are already at, say, 2RPP who would like to be bumped up to 3, or 4, or greater. I've not any clue how to deal with that elegantly, but just like the RPP system itself this should be structured.

Proposed suggestion: If you have cybernetics installed previously, halve the cost of those and subtract it from whatever boosts are being requested, rounding down. This means minor cybernetics and moderate cybernetics both allow someone to request major cybernetics at 3RPP.

Concern: This is probably going to be the only thing people focus on.

Cybernetics: Wrapping it up.

Consider this a before-first-draft. I'm going to post in this twice more. The second post is reserved for the current draft of the proposal, and will always be updated. The third post will be reserved for a current list of the crafts 'needed' for this proposal, and what you can do to help.

Cheers,
Grandpa


View user's profile  Send private message  Go to Top
It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
grandpa
Registered



Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:06 pm      Reply with quote

Cybernetics: What they are
Cybernetics, for the purposes of this system, are divided into three distinct levels of quality, and four distinct types. Minor, moderate, and major cybernetics will roll vs adroit, master, and heroic skill-level for all the associated crafts. There will be internal cybernetics(organs, nerve-replacement), external cybernetics(Skin-replacements, plating), structural cybernetics(bones), and sensory cybernetics(audio/visual). Cybernetics will be constructed (production crafts), and then refined/advanced, and each 'level' of cybernetics will require multiple cybernetics.

Cybernetics: How you acquire them.
Let's say you're Bob. Bob has a missing eye. Just one. He wants a cybernetic. He chooses a quality: minor. Then he has his friend Sally the Doctor work up a blueprint. This is in the cybernetics craftsuite, and as a PC with medicine it's a starting craft. She's adroit, so she passes it without any problem, but if she was familiar or even beginner she could -try- to succeed. It has a 100-hour timer, success or fail. Sally gives that to Bob. Bob gives it to Gnash, the martian mechanic. He builds a frame, which takes 50 hours of timers, and then advances it 3 more times(installing parts), for a total of 200 hours of timers. Then another blueprint is made, and another cybernetic 'part' produced. Each cybernetic part will be produced by a specific craftsuite, and multiple cybernetic options will hopefully exist across multiple craftsuites/skills.

Then there's a roleplay session, back to Sally/Bob. Bob takes 50% of his health, either in a wound(my preference), or in bloodloss damage, to represent the lengthy recovery from this extensive medical procedure. Optionally, he can now spend 2RPP for the minor cybernetic.

A minor cybernetic is made up of a blueprint plus two production crafts and two advancement crafts, for a total of six hundred hours of timers. A moderate cybernetic requires two blueprint, four production and three advancement crafts, for a total of twelve hundred hours. Major cybernetics require three blueprints, plus six production/advancement crafts, for a total of sixteen hundred hours.

So, in ordered form...

1. Need(or want) a cybernetic.
2. Design the cybernetic. Craft, up to six blueprints required for major cybernetics.
3. Create up to one to three cybernetic components for minor, moderate, and major cybernetics.
5. Install the cybernetic. Roleplay.
5a. Spend RPP for a benefit.
6. Heal up. Roleplay.

RPP: How they work, and cybernetics.
1RPP: Doesn't get you anything for cybernetics. Seems to be the cost of infravision, which is unavailable for cybernetics.
2RPP: Minor cybernetic. Boosts: +1 Player's Choice, +1 Player's Choice, -1 Staff's Choice
3RPP: Moderate cybernetic. Boosts: +2 Player's Choice, +1 Staff's Choice, -1 Staff's Choice
4RPP: Major cybernetic. Boosts: +3 Player's Choice, +2 Staff's Choice, -2 Staff's Choice
5RPP+: Unknown.

Problem: Lots of RPP complaints/etc.

Proposed suggestion: <to be filled by Wilde because I forget it but it was really smart.

Cybernetics: Wrapping it up.

Consider this a first draft. Hopefully we can start working on a list of crafts.
Cheers,
Grandpa


View user's profile  Send private message  Go to Top
grandpa
Registered



Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:06 pm      Reply with quote

Proposed crafts in the cybernetics craftsuite:

Design minor-internal-cybernetics
Design minor-sensory-cybernetics
Design minor-skeletal-cybernetics
Design minor-external-cybernetics

Design moderate-external-cybernetics
Design moderate-skeletal-cybernetics
Design moderate-sensory-cybernetics
Design moderate-internal-cybernetics

Design major-internal-cybernetics
Design major-skeletal-cybernetics
Design major-external-cybernetics
Design major-sensory-cybernetics

New items required:

Philosophy behind the craftsuite:
I understand we could limit these crafts/reduce the total number(and workload) by using variables. My only concern there is that we're then reducing our ability to reqiire different materials for different cybernetics, so then why have the differentiation between internal/external/skeletal/sensory at all?


View user's profile  Send private message  Go to Top
Nedinu
Registered



Post Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:14 pm      Reply with quote

I feel like the design stage is more of a biologist's area, from the helpfile and that biology as a whole deals with concepts whereas medicine deals more with application. On the other hand, pretty much every biologist I've ever seen in the game is a botanist because the only crafts for it has to do with plants.

View user's profile  Send private message  Go to Top
Octavius
Registered



Consultant

Post Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:41 pm      Reply with quote

Any cybernetic that modifies stats does require staff intervention and RPP. That said, it was always intended to be achievable in game (under Atonement) - it was a major design-point that anything gotten by RPP could also be acquired by RP. Not sure the current staff philosophy on this.

One thing to consider is that cosmetic cybernetics being wearable items. Good roleplay would not have them being taken off/on, but it allows for something to be produced that has an IG reflection.

Eyes, Legs, Feet, Hands... good places for them.

Designing the cybernetics results in creating a new variable description which the staff could give you on a Blueprint object.

Alternately, if you want the feel of Cybernetics but actually having coded results attached (without staff intervention), there is an object type (currently advanced electronics) which gives wearable items that provide coded bonuses and skill boosts. It is only a change in descriptor to treat them as cybernetics (and RP, as you don't take them off).


View user's profile  Send private message  Go to Top
Octavius
Registered



Consultant

Post Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:44 pm      Reply with quote

Nedinu wrote:
I feel like the design stage is more of a biologist's area, from the helpfile and that biology as a whole deals with concepts whereas medicine deals more with application. On the other hand, pretty much every biologist I've ever seen in the game is a botanist because the only crafts for it has to do with plants.


Yes, flora was easier to code than fauna. The idea of breeding creatures was vetoed, as they were less useful in our environment to Robots.

I would lean towards advanced Medicine being for cybernetics over Biology, though, as it is surgical alteration. It might be cool to include Biology in the design aspect, though. What you all brainstorm there....


View user's profile  Send private message  Go to Top
Matt
Registered



Builder

Post Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:48 am      Reply with quote

We discussed this a bit when the game was first opening, but I think the crafts and process to do it will be much more difficult/advanced/time consuming.

Designing, a chemist/biologist to develop the synthetic fluids that it'd need to interact with your body like an actual limb, electrician/mechanic to build the thing, then a doctor to surgically install it. The chemical/mechanical process being more then just 'do a craft and tada', lots of progressive crafts and probably adroit +.

You have to give a reason why they're rare and expensive. Having to get someone adroit-master in chemistry and electronics to do the work with a bunch of materials will do that. Throw a week worth of timers on top of that for both of them and tada, expensive and rare.


View user's profile  Send private message  Go to Top
Matt
Registered



Builder

Post Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:49 am      Reply with quote

Octavius wrote:
Alternately, if you want the feel of Cybernetics but actually having coded results attached (without staff intervention), there is an object type (currently advanced electronics) which gives wearable items that provide coded bonuses and skill boosts. It is only a change in descriptor to treat them as cybernetics (and RP, as you don't take them off).


These were removed due to extreme brokenness.


View user's profile  Send private message  Go to Top
grandpa
Registered



Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:39 pm      Reply with quote

Matt wrote:
We discussed this a bit when the game was first opening, but I think the crafts and process to do it will be much more difficult/advanced/time consuming.

Designing, a chemist/biologist to develop the synthetic fluids that it'd need to interact with your body like an actual limb, electrician/mechanic to build the thing, then a doctor to surgically install it. The chemical/mechanical process being more then just 'do a craft and tada', lots of progressive crafts and probably adroit +.

You have to give a reason why they're rare and expensive. Having to get someone adroit-master in chemistry and electronics to do the work with a bunch of materials will do that. Throw a week worth of timers on top of that for both of them and tada, expensive and rare.


To help things move along/sum it up, what you're expecting is an extra step requiring a craft-only, advanced material for each cybernetic(in biology for external/internal, electronics for sensory, and mechanics or biology for skeletal), and increased timers at all levels?


View user's profile  Send private message  Go to Top
It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
Matt
Registered



Builder

Post Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:59 pm      Reply with quote

If it was completely my choice I'd make the process work like this.

24-72 hour blueprint timer, (electronics maybe, could be medicine plus education?)

Biology- Growing a specific material, 5 24 hour timers worth of greenhouse work.

Chemistry- Turning that material into synthetic internal fluids. 5 24 hour timers.

Mechanics- Building the mechanical frame. 5 24 hour timers.

Electronics- Wiring the frame. 5 24 hour timers.

Medicine- Installing all the internal fluids made from the chemist into the actual piece built by the mechanic/electrician. 1 72 hour craft.

That's just what I'd personally do if I were to do the crafts myself.

So 552 hours worth of craft timers. I think that's pretty reasonable for the level of technology we're talking about and how rare/expensive they're supposed to be. Especially if we're talking about actually making them effect stats with or without RPP cost.


View user's profile  Send private message  Go to Top
Display posts from previous:   
Page 1 of 7   Θ   Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Jump to:  
Reply to Topic Create a Topic


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Featured artwork used on Parallel RPI given permission for use by original artists macrebisz and merl1ncz.