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Cybernetics/RPP: Side-discussion
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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:25 pm      Reply with quote

Quote:
You don't need to be a genius to be a doctor or possess specialised knowledge. It just takes more work, and this is reflected by the code.

So a poor-int PC with talented or adroit medicine/education/first-aid shouldn't be roleplayed as a stupid, below-average intelligence? Below-average intelligence biochemists producing mid-grade drugs are okay?

Quote:

The same can be said for a low dex crafter with high skills. You're clumsy, but you've worked at it for so long that you've learned to get around it. A high dex crafter is still going to succeed more often than you are because they've got more natural talent.


No, they aren't. Dex doesn't add to your skills. Int doesn't add to your skills.

Quote:
If your dex is particularly poor, you're going to be stuck with not at all impressive crafts even though you might have been practicing longer /because/ of how clumsy you are.

Edit: Dex also determines how potentially skilled you can be with a weapon. Though I think dex needs more tweaking so you don't need to have only 13-14, the point still stands that having too poor a dex (therefore being clumsy) will make you less skilled than a character that's more coordinated. If you've got low skill with the weapon, the stat probably doesn't matter, but I'd argue with novice swords you're wildly swinging the thing around and hoping for the best rather than doing anything overly skillful.

Except it functionally -doesn't-. You're potentially less-skilled, except that most weapon skillcaps are so naturally high that it doesn't matter, and with most crafting skills your skillcap's going to be at adroit, which means you're getting most if not all crafts. Dexterity doesn't matter when it comes to the craft you produce.

Like I said: just because you have average int doesn't mean you won't figure it out. Just because you have average willpower doesn't mean you won't resist until the end. This is how people play, and when it comes to the _mind_ I'm of the opinion that the mental stats are the furthest from how you want to actually play the PC. Especially given how random the system is.

ETA:

Lost wrote:
I think this is an awful idea from top to bottom.

Can we focus less on ways to get shinier hats and bigger guns and more reasons for people to roleplay for reasons entirely apart from better numbers?

The objective and rewards of roleplay should be in no way related to being MORE LEET SUPERSWORD CYBERNETIC MASTER.

The only way all of the work in adding this to the game will benefit it at all will be adding another coded carrot for twinks to chase. We've tried the coded carrot for twinks to chase idea before in multiple forms, and it doesn't make the world more interesting at all. I would rather staff time was spent doing things that would add to the roleplay, immersion, and interactivity of the world outside of twinking more skills and getting bigger muscles than putting another thing like this out there, since it's just the same idea ("twink skills, get stronger!") rehashed and no more exciting than the last time.

And before you go there, no, it won't be a neat roleplaying thing: it will be a bland, thinly-veiled "I made up this IC excuse to have more coded power" thing, and I personally could not find this entire idea any less interesting.

He posted this in the wrong thread entirely: THIS is why RPP costs for these are a must.


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crayon
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:02 pm      Reply with quote

Well.

I think that any fully-fledged IG cybernetics system would necessarily have a significant chance of a) Not boosting anything, b) Leaving your character with permanent con or HP loss, or c) Leaving your character with a permanent gimp to certain stats.

With that price around to be paid, ALONG with all of the RP and resources and connections that would need to be exhausted to get it done... I don't see the need for RPP to be involved.

The way I see it, RPP should be a cost for things that you can get IG, in CG (like stat boosts or with this change for cybernetics), and for things that have a required scarcity but can never really be changed (race, cybernetics presently).

If the coded system has flaws built in, and is prohibitive enough to ensure its own scarcity, the necessity for an RPP cost for IG cybernetics dissolves. Quickly. But starting the game with boosting cybernetics shouldn't cease to be possible, either. That's where RPP would stay in the picture.


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grandpa
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:38 pm      Reply with quote

Quote:
I think that any fully-fledged IG cybernetics system would necessarily have a significant chance of a) Not boosting anything, b) Leaving your character with permanent con or HP loss, or c) Leaving your character with a permanent gimp to certain stats.

Systems that harm players for effort, work, and choosing to do things you want to reward generally force people to quit.

Quote:

With that price around to be paid, ALONG with all of the RP and resources and connections that would need to be exhausted to get it done... I don't see the need for RPP to be involved.

Sure, but that system's just going to make players leave.


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crayon
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:40 pm      Reply with quote

Grandpa.

I think the difference is that you're seeing cybernetics as a way to ICly boost characters. They're putting effort and work into getting them.

I'm not. I'm seeing cybernetics as a tool to keep players that really HAVE sustained maiming injuries playable, with either a handicap or a boost based on a mixture of luck and skill.


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Lost
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:56 pm      Reply with quote

I haaaate the entire notion of RPP being a currency for coded power.

Combine it with twinking skills, totally, incredibly fun scav runs for rare stuff and people making up IC excuses to justify why they need/want better code numbers, and this whole idea is like a horrific, stitched-together abomination of almost everything I dislike on Parallel.


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Aken
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:01 pm      Reply with quote

People don't sustain that sort of injury, except voluntarily.

I don't really envisage a cybernetics system in-game leading to anything but people clamouring for cybernetic parts - which doesn't make sense if they're fit and healthy - or a sudden spate of maimed PCs.

I'd much rather see a variation on Lost Tales' upgrade system (the one that existed at the start of Atonement before Kith swapped it out). It could stand to be toned down somewhat, since over time, it potentially allowed for +3 to every single stat, with each point costing an RPP. I doubt we really want PCs with more than +3 (up to maaaybe +6) to their stat totals.

I'd not mind seeing cybernetics in as a thing that have little/no impact on a PC's stats etc., but as an RP prop. I don't really see it being anything short of jarring, otherwise.


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crayon
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:11 pm      Reply with quote

Aken wrote:
People don't sustain that sort of injury, except voluntarily.


What are... grievous and horrific injuries?

Aken wrote:
I'd much rather see a variation on Lost Tales' upgrade system (the one that existed at the start of Atonement before Kith swapped it out). It could stand to be toned down somewhat, since over time, it potentially allowed for +3 to every single stat, with each point costing an RPP. I doubt we really want PCs with more than +3 (up to maaaybe +6) to their stat totals.


I'm unsure of what this is, but it sounds like cutting out the middle man and making it a direct RPP to power purchase? Please for the love of all that... Just no. Please no. Otherwise, I'm down to hear what the system actually entails, since I doubt everybody's familiar?


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grandpa
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:15 pm      Reply with quote

crayon wrote:

Aken wrote:
I'd much rather see a variation on Lost Tales' upgrade system (the one that existed at the start of Atonement before Kith swapped it out). It could stand to be toned down somewhat, since over time, it potentially allowed for +3 to every single stat, with each point costing an RPP. I doubt we really want PCs with more than +3 (up to maaaybe +6) to their stat totals.


I'm unsure of what this is, but it sounds like cutting out the middle man and making it a direct RPP to power purchase? Please for the love of all that... Just no. Please no. Otherwise, I'm down to hear what the system actually entails, since I doubt everybody's familiar?


It's this, exactly.


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Roadhawk
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We lurk inside your brain, we hide inside your mind.

Post Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:57 am      Reply with quote

grandpa wrote:
Quote:
I think that any fully-fledged IG cybernetics system would necessarily have a significant chance of a) Not boosting anything, b) Leaving your character with permanent con or HP loss, or c) Leaving your character with a permanent gimp to certain stats.

Systems that harm players for effort, work, and choosing to do things you want to reward generally force people to quit.

Quote:

With that price around to be paid, ALONG with all of the RP and resources and connections that would need to be exhausted to get it done... I don't see the need for RPP to be involved.

Sure, but that system's just going to make players leave.


A growing divide in power levels also forces people to quit.


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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:27 pm      Reply with quote

Roadhawk wrote:
A growing divide in power levels also forces people to quit.


All this system is as-is is an extension of what the RPP system already is at its core. Any problems you have with that are just as valid when leveled at RPP as a whole. And like Crayon said, maybe it's not the best system...but it's the only one we've got.


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