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Chazz
Cute and Cuddly Coder



Post Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:17 pm      Reply with quote

Well, I like pretty much everything that's been said so far. Most of what I want to do with this system is planned out, and I'll hopefully tackle it pretty quickly. I doubt this'll be one of those 'rehaul it once and it'll be perfect' type things, but it'd be nice to get the worst of it all changed.

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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:37 pm      Reply with quote

Crayon: You haven't played this game with a low-int PC yet, I believe, so your bias there is likely pretty strong. Take a look at the average scav/run, and how many people get to -actually- fight, and I think you'll find that skill-ups are more significant than you're downplaying it as, especially for outlier PCs that either do not get to fight as often or do not have high int.

That said, re: combat, I actually don't have any problems with combat as it exists currently. I don't think things need to be added to it for anything other than quality-of-life(which most suggested changes are/have been quality-of-life). I don't want to see a system where combat code relies on know-how of the player more than know-how of the PC. I would like to see a system where it's balanced around lower skill-levels, rather than balanced around adroit(and large groups) and I'd like to see a change from the current, where adroit is easy to get(only requirement is patience), but master+ is incredibly difficult.


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It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
crayon
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:38 pm      Reply with quote

grandpa wrote:
Crayon: You haven't played this game with a low-int PC yet, I believe, so your bias there is likely pretty strong. Take a look at the average scav/run, and how many people get to -actually- fight, and I think you'll find that skill-ups are more significant than you're downplaying it as, especially for outlier PCs that either do not get to fight as often or do not have high int.


Intelligence and dexterity effect the cooldown rate. In turn, by playing the game with high-int/high-dex PCs, I've actually put myself in the position where the difference between sole-wield and dual-wield in gaining a certain number of skills is actually MORE significant. Relatively.

Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't have an effect, but I am saying that short of somebody coming up with an easy solution to the problem, it's going to be a case where the potential fix is more work than it's worth.

If, on average, it takes a dual-wielder of knives five ticks of combat to grab their skill up, and it takes a sole-wielder of a greatsword fifteen... then sure. It takes the latter three times longer to acquire a SINGLE skill point. But when you start talking about gaining, say, five skill points, the relevance suddenly becomes questionable. Because of the 1-3 hours of cooldown between each of those bumps. As long as they have the OPPORTUNITY to get those ticks worth of combat, they're fine.

Now, as far as making sure that people GET that opportunity, that's more of a Wasteland fauna issue, than it is a combat issue, to be completely honest. But the fact is, the sewers provide ample opportunity. Of course, if you want the game balanced as though the sewers don't exist, addition of more 'pack' mobs would make sure the opportunities are sufficient on scav runs (and would probably have a beneficial effect with regards to other things that bug you).

grandpa wrote:
That said, re: combat, I actually don't have any problems with combat as it exists currently. I don't think things need to be added to it for anything other than quality-of-life(which most suggested changes are/have been quality-of-life). I don't want to see a system where combat code relies on know-how of the player more than know-how of the PC. I would like to see a system where it's balanced around lower skill-levels, rather than balanced around adroit(and large groups) and I'd like to see a change from the current, where adroit is easy to get(only requirement is patience), but master+ is incredibly difficult.


With you entirely, and I've already thrown Chazz a suggestion, which is probably not far off from what he'd already had in mind, with regards to most of the awkward bits regarding skill levels.


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Lowdy
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:09 pm      Reply with quote

I do have a question. Once you hit adroit, I heard you can only get better with multiple partners. Now also, you have to use the ward ability to raise the skill as well. But with ward knocking off the other members of the fight, I can see the difficulty raising in skill. Is what I have been told, true?

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Bogre
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:17 am      Reply with quote

Nedinu wrote:
Give a slight penalty to deflect when using two weapons. Makes sense by itself since you can't brace against attacks as easily as if you were using two hands on one weapon.


Most characters (except for one dual-knifer I played once upon a time) use shield + weapon if they dual and are getting attacked rather than two weapons.


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Lowdy
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:32 pm      Reply with quote

The thing about that is, they are already taking a hit to deflect since they aren't using shields to begin with! I primarily stick to either shield use OR dual wielding. I don't jump in between because it is a bias to my own rp enforcing of personal opinion. But I think that if you pick dual wield and just use two weapons, you are already taking a shot at deflect. Instead of the +5 points or the +10 you can get with a shield, I mean.

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Chazz
Cute and Cuddly Coder



Post Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:18 pm      Reply with quote

Lowdy wrote:
I do have a question. Once you hit adroit, I heard you can only get better with multiple partners. Now also, you have to use the ward ability to raise the skill as well. But with ward knocking off the other members of the fight, I can see the difficulty raising in skill. Is what I have been told, true?


Maybe. Maybe not. Play and find out.

And taking a hit to deflect for using solewield or dual-wielding two weapons is sort of the point. 'Sacrificing defense for more DPS' and what not.


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Lowdy
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:48 pm      Reply with quote

^Totally agree with it is all^

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crayon
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:53 pm      Reply with quote

The problem is that solewield takes a hit to defense in exchange for some DPS.

Dual-wield doesn't. Dual-wield just swaps to weapon+shield if they're being attacked, and takes no hit. Then if they're not being attacked, they swap back to weapon+weapon, and still do MORE DPS than sole-wield.

That's the problem.


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Lowdy
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:39 pm      Reply with quote

Sole wield has more of a chance for concussions, bleeders, broken bones and much harder hits doesn't it? Depending on STR of course

Also, I believe the dual-wield skill is very newbie friendly. I think something like that lets people new to the mud or new to a combat PC to play around with combat and see what they like. I know when I first started combat I liked certain ways more than others.


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Featured artwork used on Parallel RPI given permission for use by original artists macrebisz and merl1ncz.