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Bartleby
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Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:36 pm      Reply with quote

It's true, gun combat doesn't leave a lot of room for RP. Melee combat, particularly one-on-one does leave some, because of the delays between turns, unless one party vastly outmatches the other to the point that not many turns occur.

Mostly, though, I think it's a matter of the RP leading up to the point at which things went to code having established well enough what's going on and who's involved and why, and how they feel about what they're doing. If everyone already knew that Jane and Lucky were going to showdown at the OK Corral over who had the biggest hat, then even if no one witnesses the fight, someone finding the corpse of Lucky with a bullet in his head will progress the story. Likewise, Jane and Lucky should both have said their goodbyes beforehand, knowing what might happen.

Except in the cases of assassins/bandits/wars, there would necessarily also be some precipitating incident or series of incidents in which both PCs made choices that they knew could lead to their deaths. Establishing their willingness to make those choices, and their reasons for doing so, means that even sudden code death will have an RP context.

That said, me not wanting to lose a character to an abrupt and RPless code death dovetails rather nicely with my character not wanting to die, and so I find these situations rather easy to avoid.

If your character ICly wants to have a meaningful death, they won't antagonize someone who could kill them over something they're not willing to die for. And if their willingness to die for that thing has been well established and RPed through, the death is representative of that IC reality, even if you don't have time to get a last emote off.

Still, trying to go to code first so that you get an advantage rather than RPing through the meeting on the battlefield is pretty lame. If you really must ambush someone, and it would be IC for your PC to do so, try to establish enough of the situation in previous encounters so that the person being ambushed at least knows what's happening and can have an immersive response, even if they don't necessarily have the time to type that in.

The above is why assassin/killer bandit type characters are very iffy in my book. If you kill people for a personal reason, chances are they know what it is, and you've RP'd through being given one. But killing people for their stuff, or because someone else wants them eliminated in secret, makes it all but impossible to RP with them first. Sure, it gives you a huge advantage if they don't see it coming, but it removes a PC from the RP landscape without any actual RP. This seems like an obvious net loss, to me. Especially if they mattered so much, somehow, that they needed to be eliminated.


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I would prefer not to.
Blondie
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Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:53 pm      Reply with quote

Why is there not a lot of room for RP in gun combat? I haven't used it before, granted, but I would imagine there is no real compulsion to spam the fire command if there is a mutual understanding by both parties that RP takes precedence.

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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:08 pm      Reply with quote

Blondie wrote:
Why is there not a lot of room for RP in gun combat? I haven't used it before, granted, but I would imagine there is no real compulsion to spam the fire command if there is a mutual understanding by both parties that RP takes precedence.

You can't emote from three rooms away.


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It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
Blondie
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Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:20 pm      Reply with quote

grandpa wrote:
Blondie wrote:
Why is there not a lot of room for RP in gun combat? I haven't used it before, granted, but I would imagine there is no real compulsion to spam the fire command if there is a mutual understanding by both parties that RP takes precedence.

You can't emote from three rooms away.


Ahh, I was assuming a scenario in which both characters are in the same room. That's always been the case for ranged combat, though. Just because it isn't as dramatic doesn't make it any less powerful.


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grandpa
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Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:26 pm      Reply with quote

I'd disagree, Blondie--the motivations for whoever's killing me might be entirely unknown to me, especially if I never see my killer. I don't think guns should be out of the game--but a death by gun, in many scenarios, can't be said to be anywhere near as fun as a death by melee from the receiving end.

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It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
Blondie
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Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:37 pm      Reply with quote

grandpa wrote:
I'd disagree, Blondie--the motivations for whoever's killing me might be entirely unknown to me, especially if I never see my killer. I don't think guns should be out of the game--but a death by gun, in many scenarios, can't be said to be anywhere near as fun as a death by melee from the receiving end.


I respect that view and agree with it. There is not much that compares to the visceral story telling of up close and personal combat. However, you do know the reason why somebody's character killed yours. Your character exists in an unsafe, unforgiving environment where danger lurks around every corner. As long as it isn't PK, your characters death is a powerful echo of this sentiment.

Then again, I'm basically a martyr when it comes to death in RP. My character won't just take it, but if it happens, I am going to embrace the f*^% out of it. I may be a bit biased in this matter.


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Guts
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:35 am      Reply with quote

grandpa wrote:
I'd disagree, Blondie--the motivations for whoever's killing me might be entirely unknown to me, especially if I never see my killer. I don't think guns should be out of the game--but a death by gun, in many scenarios, can't be said to be anywhere near as fun as a death by melee from the receiving end.



I believe this is mostly due to the conflicting assumptions that

A) A player doesn't want their PC to die and spamwalks\poweremotes out of it.
B) The shooter won't give them a chance to RP


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Bartleby
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:46 am      Reply with quote

Guts wrote:
grandpa wrote:
I'd disagree, Blondie--the motivations for whoever's killing me might be entirely unknown to me, especially if I never see my killer. I don't think guns should be out of the game--but a death by gun, in many scenarios, can't be said to be anywhere near as fun as a death by melee from the receiving end.



I believe this is mostly due to the conflicting assumptions that

A) A player doesn't want their PC to die and spamwalks\poweremotes out of it.
B) The shooter won't give them a chance to RP


They're not really conflicting, since at any given time, any given player is only on one side or the other. Most often (and this type of situation occurs in a lot more instances than just gun battles), it's a feedback loop, where A causes B and B causes A.

Or, more accurately, the aggressor's FEAR that the victim will behave like A causes them to behave like B, in perceived self-defense, while the victim's FEAR that the aggressor will behave like B causes them to behave like A, in perceived self-defense.

But that's not the only reason. It may be not very IC for the shooter to enter the room the shoot-ee is in. I mean, the whole point of assaulting someone with a ranged weapon is to keep your distance while assaulting them. Sure, you might do it because you're more skilled at your ranged weapon, but that's ultimately because you're the type of person who prefers to get good at attacking from a distance.

It's pretty hard to RP with someone who's not in the same room. And there's no IC reason for the victim to not attempt to put more distance between the shooter and themselves, or get out of the line of fire, or what have you.


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I would prefer not to.
AdamBlue9000
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Post Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:49 pm      Reply with quote

From pof James:
Hey, guys. Repeatedly telling me, here in this thread, that you want conflict in-game to be permitted rather than stifled, then your characters having a fit in-game when my character allows a bit of it to continue, really does send me some mixed messages. I will grant that it's possible that you want to direct the focus of your conflict towards my character as opposed to others, but that thought wearies me -- it's extra stuff to do and deal with that I could really do without. Considering that, and that I thought I'd leave some leeway, due to the sentiments expressed in this thread, and the consequences of that, I'll just go right ahead and stifle it again in future.


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Hyriana
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Post Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:01 pm      Reply with quote

I think the major issue is because we've gone on long enough without real conflict and it's better than out and out fighting each other. ICly, that is. The situation in question seemed, at least to me (again ICly), a pretty silly thing to start a war over.

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