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IC Conflict and You
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Bartleby
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Post Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:04 pm      Reply with quote

AdamBlue9000 wrote:
From pof James:
Hey, guys. Repeatedly telling me, here in this thread, that you want conflict in-game to be permitted rather than stifled, then your characters having a fit in-game when my character allows a bit of it to continue, really does send me some mixed messages.


I obviously don't know what you're talking about specifically, and I shouldn't. But my response is necessarily going to somewhat off-base since there's undoubtedly a lot of information that I don't have.

That said:

a) I'm not sure how you can generalize your response to a theoretical discussion based on the actions of individual PCs, whose players may or may not be taking part in the discussion (for all we know, from what you said)

b) Players and PCs are not the same thing -- players want conflict, for their PCs to be upset about. PCs being upset (possibly at your PC) is part and parcel of the thing. The people who ultimately have the power to stop or start, allow or disallow, a conflict will always get flak from people who would have preferred it had been handled differently. But this is potentially a fun IC situation, if your gameplay goal isn't to avoid your PC getting any flak.

I sympathize with feeling like an IC punching bag, but I don't really think it's possible to participate in/allow/generate conflict as a clan lead while teflon-ing through the affair without anyone ever pointing the finger at your PC. At best you're adding to the mixed signals by being reluctant for your own PC to be conflicted with over conflict.

As a clan lead you're always going to have people telling you, ICly and OOCly, that you're Doing It Wrong. The OOC part can be really annoying and draining, but the IC part could be fun and give you the opportunity to explore and demonstrate how your PC deals with conflict.


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I would prefer not to.
wirsindallein
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(ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧

Post Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:16 pm      Reply with quote

I have no idea what you're talking about, but...uh

With the way things have been this long, should you really be expecting anything BUT characters being against conflict? Really? And, honestly, again, as I've said: There isn't anything worth fighting over. So whatever it was probably was, as Hyriana said, pretty silly to begin with, by necessity.


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WorkerDrone
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Duke Attitude

Post Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:41 pm      Reply with quote

If I find you to be stifling very riveting, genuinely exciting conflict, over something that was reasonable, bold, daring, dangerous or worth having conflict over, I'd say yeah, I'll be disappointed.

If I find you telling an idiot being an idiot with other idiots to stop, and nip a dumb argument over dumb things in the bud, I'd call you a hero.

Everyone is capable of making the call on what's dumb or not, and I know you're thinking, "how can I tell the difference?"

Just take a cue from everyone else. If everyone around you, from a multitude of individual parts and pieces, finds the content worth the conflict, don't do things to stifle it, just try to go with the flow.

If everyone is saying stuff that gives the indication that it should have been handled before it ever ballooned so big, then that's probably 'cause it was silly to let it get that big.

And like--I'm not asking my clanlead, or other clanleads, to micromanage everyone either. If anything, I'm just asking for RP to remain as IC as it's ever been. I actually don't even care if you don't stifle idiots before they blow things out of proportion. If you're trying to avoid conflict as a clanleader though, directed in your direction, you asked for the wrong job. You're gonna get it in spades from different directions, both in your ranks and out of it.

It sucks and it takes a lot out of you but--it can be compartmentalized. If there's other RP you want to get around to first, it's technically still an option to just walk away from a scene, if you're remaining IC.


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norwegianjesus
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Post Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:05 pm      Reply with quote

What I want to know.. does anybody beat anyone up or leave someone in a pile of blood and snot or does everyone escalate an infraction to death once violence is brought into the equation?

Has anyone ever RP'd giving someone a busted lip or headbutted someone or whatever and it's come off and worked?

Does this just lead to OOC arguments and does the sometimes lengthy coded melee make people prefer to just put a bullet in someone or desire death as an end result for their troubles?

In many games I've played death wasn't permanent and that explained the use of killing as an answer to everything from boredom, to insult, to accompanying robbery, to 'sending a message' etc. So I'm interested to know if the same still applies in PRPI.


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crayon
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Post Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:38 pm      Reply with quote

On an IC level I think intense beatings, or occasionally maimings, should probably outnumber outright kills over most sort of logical and escalated infractions.

On an OOC level, it's hard to administer that sort of beatdown IG, given that brawling has no correspondence with actual combat skill, and almost no correspondence with brawling skill itself. Because of that, people have a likely desire to escalate physical conflicts by resorting to using stronger weapons where they have a higher probability of coded success.

Sadly, even melee weapons have a significant chance of killing the target if damage spikes at an inopportune time and they don't have sufficient con; or you cause a bleeder of enough severity.


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norwegianjesus
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:34 pm      Reply with quote

Is this maybe an area the admin could look at to improve the playout of conflict?

I picked brawling for my character for this specific reason. I knew he was going to need to fight, but it jarrs with me to end the life of someone's character unless its a true 'to the death' situation.

I've posted to the ideas thread or whatever with my ideas of a solution but that 'if I don't kill him he'll come back and kill me' culture does have to change. Especially when the situations are not serious enough to want someone dead.


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Nedinu
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:06 pm      Reply with quote

People do start fist fights without it turning to weapon combat. Haven't seen it lately, but I've definitely seen it, and sometimes taken part, back in Atonement. The last beat down a character of mine had was at the later stages of Gamma a while after the ship landed on Mars; not that long ago.

So, I don't think the whole playerbase has that mentality. But to be honest, even if they do, it's something people think anyways. It's not some twinkish thing to think or do because, if you beat the shit out of someone in real life, the thought of them coming back to kill your butt will probably pop into your head.


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crayon
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:29 pm      Reply with quote

There's also the part where, if your character would win if it came to weapon combat, but is pretty much screwed in a brawling fight, you have every IC reason, because of game mechanics, to want to escalate it to a real fight.

I'm not sure many people really want a REAL fight having the results get determined by brawling, given how HORRIBLE brawling is compared to the rest of combat and how little it reflects on actual relevant combat skill.

Brawling mostly gets taken as a bully skill, so people with brawling can beat on people without, regardless of whether the people without would win in an out-and-out fight. The hysterical part is that the brawling itself has almost no effect whatsoever, and almost the entire exchange is governed primarily by strength and con, with brawling only coming into play as a sort of tie-breaker.


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Terminobber
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Elfin Slavemaster and Santa double

Post Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:09 pm      Reply with quote

Uhm. Brawling actually does have an effect on combt. J/S. You may think it doesn't, but it there doing it's thing.

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crayon
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:09 pm      Reply with quote

It's there doing the thing it does, and the thing it does has almost no coded relevance because of the way AC factors and the nonexistent base damage. The best brawler's determined first by who can hit fastest for one damage, hit hard enough for more than one damage, or take the most hits, BECAUSE the base damages are so low. With full-on weapons, most hits are going to do more than 1 damage in PvP, so hitting accurately has a lot more relevance than it does in Brawling.

Hence the: "Beginner Brawling/Amateur Dodge with high str/con versus Talented Brawling/Familiar Dodge with average" winding up being a pretty dominating victory by the former.


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