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wilde
Administrator
Over Emote-tional
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 Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:07 pm |  |
| DrJohnSmith wrote: |
| But maybe it could be handled similar to the IG message boards? |
I'd be all up for something like this. Will look into it.
I think some people prefer MUDmails and some would prefer an IC method- either is acceptable, really. It's not like it needs to be an in depth discussion, just a 'hey, just letting you my my PC used to belong to x clan x long ago and left for x reason' would be fine.
| tempest wrote: |
| --Are the people -doing- this really going to leap at the opportunity to out themselves? |
It's a case by case kind of thing. Sure, there will be some people who want to keep it a secret and some people who will want the RP that arises from it. For some people, leaving one Family and joining another will be what defines them, for good or for bad.
| Sabrelon wrote: |
| What about, with computers being overhauled and whatnot, some kind of "Voice Recorder"-style intercom that uploaded what is said to a clanlead's computer, so they have access to it that way? Would that be possible/easier than what DJS suggested? |
I think a board would be better- It seems weird that gossip from NPCs would ended up recorded on a computer, to me.
Anyway, what I'm really getting at is that if people want their histories to be known, they need to be proactive about it.
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:35 pm | |
| wilde wrote: |
| Sabrelon wrote: |
| What about, with computers being overhauled and whatnot, some kind of "Voice Recorder"-style intercom that uploaded what is said to a clanlead's computer, so they have access to it that way? Would that be possible/easier than what DJS suggested? |
I think a board would be better- It seems weird that gossip from NPCs would ended up recorded on a computer, to me.
Anyway, what I'm really getting at is that if people want their histories to be known, they need to be proactive about it. |
What I'd meant was, instead of some actual group of NPCs, you'd use some kind of intercom/recorder system that would 'upload' it to the Clanleads Computer. That would allow the players to get in contact with the Clanlead and touch base about who they are so the leadership PC isn't just floundering around asking some dude their name when they reasonably might have brought them in in the first place. Though there are ways to excuse that and whatnot.
Beyond that, again, it probably doesn't matter so much.
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:36 pm | |
I wouldn't be surprised if a rumor / mid-level NPC reports board would give more (and more useful) information for a lot of characters than they would necessarily be inclined to include in a voluntary self-description. 
The advantage of a board over mudmail, I guess, is that (a) it doesn't require recruits to know exactly which leadership PCs should see these sorts of "background check results" and (b) new leadership PCs who roll in or are promoted up would have retroactive access. And of course, it could be used for any semi-confidential / official reports, not just background details.
Now I want to read a board post that starts, "A tall, muscular man was seen spreading the following message: Well, actually, he wasn't, and he'd probably be pissed if he knew were spreading it, but ..." I'm sure it's been done.
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:45 pm | |
Personally, (and obviously I'm biased because of the types of characters I tend to play  ) I think that any system that requires PCs to ICly self-report to clan leads will always be problematic, and not just in a "but Joe wouldn't ever voluntarily share that he'd been in another gang and left under cover of darkness after inserting something he wasn't supposed to into something belonging to the Boss's son/daughter" kind of way (although that presents its own additional problems, since the OTHER boss would probably know that and doesn't if Joe's player doesn't tell him/her).
When you ask PCs to tell you who they are, you never really get the unbiased truth, even if they mean to be giving it. Tina may tell you she's the most loyal, devoted Family member you have, when your judgment of her actions, if you saw them, wouldn't necessarily bear that out, and Steve might say that he's just some guy who's not worth taking note of, when he may be very productive and loyal and just have low self-esteem.
IC boards are slightly better since the player has the option of putting the assessment in the voice of someone who isn't limited by their PC's self-opinions, although (judging by the variety of IC board posting styles) I think there will always be some players who feel more comfortable embellishing their PC's accomplishments/notoriety than others do.
Most things that get posted on IC boards need to be taken with a grain of salt, imo. Who is this book-keeper that he or she knows things PCs would potentially not admit to, and has so many glowing (and/or scathing) opinions of people? And can you really take their word that Joe is a bastard and Jane is a saint?
That said, OOC communication is of course not at all unbiased, either. So perhaps it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. But at least it gets around the awkwardness of how to react to a single NPC who is made up of a million disjointed and sometimes wildly preferential fragments of information they couldn't possibly have personally observed.
As for leaving Families, I am fully in favor of the canonical version of the situation presented here, with the small caveat that meta-concerns sometimes create a situation in which a player isn't particularly happy or well-suited to be playing among a group of other players, and going through the proper IC channels should (imo) allow that player the opportunity (as much as is possible, given any IC situations that might exist) to play elsewhere if they so wish. This is mainly an issue because of how separated the clans are from one another, and the huge proportion of one's time one necessarily spends playing with one's clanmates. That and the fact that you never really know what OOC situation you're apping into until you get there.
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| I would prefer not to. | |
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Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:11 am | |
I'm generally in favor of most of what's been said so far, but I did want to take a moment to air my reservations on one small detail, which is who exactly has access to these proposed backstory posts.
As described so far a situation is presented wherein, for example, a private and a corporal who supposedly have been in the clan for five and twenty-five years respectively, would know nothing about one another, and yet the sergeant, who has been there for a year and a half has access to the totality of their backstories.
The situation may be anomalous, but it exists.
It would be a neat solution, directly from chargen, that a corporal would have access to more history than a private, and a private more than a recruit. However, so far as I'm aware, corporal is the highest rank that one can apply into directly at the moment, meaning that all sergeants have been promoted in-game, and seniority is not always the deciding factor.
It is of course terribly awkward when you first encounter a character and have to fumble through the whole "So, when did you join Clan X? Ten years ago? Ha ha! Me too. So very strange that until this moment we have never met," rigamarole, and I would love to find a more graceful solution to that. However, coded rank can be an unreliable indicator of background once you actually get into the game, and thus I have concerns with making that the deciding factor in how much information one has access to.
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wilde
Administrator
Over Emote-tional
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Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:23 am | |
Back stories are currently just written as one post, so there's really no way of sharing specific parts of it without players volunteering it themselves.
It's the responsibility of the player to inform relevant parties of any pertinent information (if there is any), whether via a general gossip board post, a clan lead only board post or a MUDmail. We should probably add clan lead details to the wiki, underneath each clan.
If you're not willing to do that, you should probably ask yourself why you're making something like that part of your history. If it's meant to be secret, that's one thing, but if it's general knowledge or even known to a select few, it's really up to you to make that happen.
With regards to Families being lenient towards characters with events such as these in their back stories, it's safe to assume there's some kind of reason why they got away with it. Maybe they struck a deal, maybe they have friends in high places, maybe the they just slipped through the net. It's natural for players and characters to focus on events that they've actually been involved with and not care so much about things that happened in another character's history, so that's always going to happen.
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Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:38 am | |
I think perhaps I was unclear in what I was trying to say, and perhaps this would be better suited to the “suggestions” thread, if so feel free to move it on over.
My issue was never in protecting information, my intent was actually to ensure that all appropriate parties would have access to it. I actually did mudmail my clan lead right off the bat to ensure they were informed, I did not, however, write an epic board post outlining my character's life-story since joining the clan. I didn't feel at the time that it was appropriate.
My only argument was with restricting access to a dedicated backstory collection. I think that having such a thing would be a very good idea, as it would consolidate the information somewhere other than the gossip boards, I simply believe that it would be more useful if it were accessible to everyone and that players were allowed to determine what their character would reasonably know at their own discretion.
If it is agreed that the gossip boards are the best place for this, so be it. I simply feel that some kind of separate backstory object, IC or OOC would be useful for new (and relatively established) characters to get a feel for who’s who without having to wade through pages and pages of “BTW Jim needs a new pair of shoes.” To say nothing of the fact that most introductory gossip board posts, in my experience, are pretty sparse. If someone’s background suggests that your character may have some kind of history with them, you would then know who to mudmail to hash things out.
My interest, ultimately, is really only in trying to make it easier to volunteer information about one’s character. I absolutely agree that it is the responsibility of the player to put that information out there, I’m just trying to suggest something that might help in that task.
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wilde
Administrator
Over Emote-tional
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Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:31 am | |
Sorry, Blue. Only the first sentence of that was really in direct response you you, I didn't intend to be dismissive.
Maybe a dedicated back story/gossip board would be good but I can't think of anything better, is what I'm getting at.
Anyway, what I was really trying to stress, was that some characters might have changed Families in their histories, but that clan leads won't be aware unless the characters have mentioned it or the players have made some effort so people shouldn't just assume that they've gotten away with it for no reason, or without consequence.
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Holmes
Dictator in Absentia
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Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:52 am | |
I have an idea for this, but I think I just broke the laptop I was stuck with for the weekend, so I won't be able to test implementation of it until Monday.
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Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:19 pm | |
So, I was wondering about this, actually. Currently, while it makes good IC sense to not let people leave (kind of- I'll get to this), it's kind of a buzzkill OOC. If you get a character up to a high skill level/are invested in that character, and something changes? Your favorite leader dies, and that brat who you hate steps up and starts making your life hell, you have to just take it. Your options OOCly are then to either deal with your character losing, for forever (or at least until the guy dies). Or you can try to kill him, which is realistically not going to work unless you can get a large group, and even then it might not. Or you can retire.
Something else that I kind of wondered about is ICly. If someone joins, they provide skills and support the group in exchage for food/shelter/more supplies. But when someone doesn't want to stay in the group, they are more of a vulnerability than anything. Someone with access to your base, your supplies, and everyone else in your group...Who doesn't like you? That seems like a terrible idea to me.
Scenario 1 (highly implausible): I want to quit but can't, so I'll just keep on risking my life alongside people I hate, and use my skills to help them.
Scenario 2 (more likely): I'm not going to go on runs/scav. I might make some trinkets for fun now and again, but mostly just not going to be a part of the group.
Scenario 3 (likely): Screw these guys, I'm going to steal stuff/let rival gangers in/wreak havoc (destroy infrastructure, anybody?)
Scenario 4 (more OOC consequence than IC): Why log in if I'm not having fun? Or retire, I suppose.
Of all the possibilities I can think of, only 1 is good for the group. All the others, which seem more likely, are just going to be a pain. The only realistic option here is to kill them, which I find it hard to be an advocate for. It's just kind of an uncomfortable situation in general, with quite a few sharp edges to it. So I'm curious as to what can be done, if anything, to make it a less obnoxious situation in certain ways.
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