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wilde
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Over Emote-tional

Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:59 am      Reply with quote

kel wrote:
Like all the pro-family folks like to rail about "indies face the difficulties they do because they're indies",


This has nothing to do with being 'pro-family', it's just canon.

I'd really like to remind people again that being an indie isn't supposed to be easy. We're doing what we can to find a balance between hard and fun, but just because something is challenging within the game, it doesn't mean it's wrong.


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Darkblade
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:02 am      Reply with quote

Right, going to get this right out of the way right now: The only difference between Families and Indies right now is that Families are given a more swagtastic clubhouse at the start of the game, and a means to make small amount of chips on the side via turfquests (most of said chips then being put towards bullet/gold funds). That's it. That is the difference in power really between Indies and Families.

Families still have to gather -all- of the materials they use the exact same way Indies do.

Families still have to provide and feed for all of their members.

The one thing that makes it easier for families is just this. Members of a family do not try to in turn rip other family members off. That's about it.

If indies -really- gave half-a-chip about one another, there wouldn't be any issue here as everyone would be living fat and happy. Instead, Indies only really care about how -they- will profit from transactions (And while I know there are some exceptions out there, this is more or less the rule of thumb I've seen in game).


Now, onto the topic of vouchers... personally I feel a voucher system is somewhat convoluted and unnecessary. Most things are already handed out freely on an as it's needed/available basis save for pieces that are already fairly regulated (such as firearms or high-quality crafting supplies). Pieces of equipment given out should really be regulated to how resourceful the person is in a family, not by how many times they log in, activate an rprog, and log out.


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Throttle
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:20 am      Reply with quote

The scrip system will be aimed specifically at independents. If it's largely useless for Family people, that's more or less intended. It's meant to mitigate the disadvantages of living a cashless existence. We won't prevent Family PCs from obtaining and using them, but they're not really the intended recipients. Think of them as sort of food stamps but for the basic necessities that people need to get their professions started and such.

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Mannfreid
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:22 pm      Reply with quote

wilde wrote:
kel wrote:
Like all the pro-family folks like to rail about "indies face the difficulties they do because they're indies",


This has nothing to do with being 'pro-family', it's just canon.

I'd really like to remind people again that being an indie isn't supposed to be easy. We're doing what we can to find a balance between hard and fun, but just because something is challenging within the game, it doesn't mean it's wrong.


Well, speaking of Canon then. Indies are also supposed to be formidable enough that the families don't control the whole city, and can't thoroughly enforce there law on neutral turf, because the gangs would shoot them in the face, and they don't have the manpower to hold those area's and do that.

Also, it's Canon that the three families don't really like each other. But here we have two opposing clan leads so close there are rumors I can't say on the board, because it's to IC, and using that closeness to do the above thing.

So, canon is aparently somewhat flexable. You shouldn't pick and choose.


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Matt
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Builder

Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:35 pm      Reply with quote

That's very true. Well the parts you pointed out about canon. It's been annoying to me how happy go lucky the Reds/NG have been with each other since opening personally.

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Mannfreid
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:41 pm      Reply with quote

Also, I want to add that family scrip is an awesome way to pay there own family. You ever played Bioshock infinate? Remember the slumtown, and factory people that were paid with money that was useless anywhere else, keeping them dependant on there boss?

Yeah, I can see at least the NG would do this.

edit: I think though, that the scrip shuld be usable primarilly on there turf. It makes sens,e and gives the families a reason to build upon those abandoned buildings in there turf. Giving us all more RPT's, and rp in general.


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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:51 pm      Reply with quote

Mannfreid wrote:
Well, speaking of Canon then. Indies are also supposed to be formidable enough that the families don't control the whole city, and can't thoroughly enforce there law on neutral turf, because the gangs would shoot them in the face, and they don't have the manpower to hold those area's and do that.

Also, it's Canon that the three families don't really like each other. But here we have two opposing clan leads so close [they are controlling the whole city and enforcing their law thoroughly there


You're referring to an agreement that all three Family clanheads set at the start--one that they only -claim- to enforce on their own turf/outside the city itself, that they haven't -actually- ever ICly enforced, and that refers to items of such vast wealth that literally only PCs/Family NPCs will ever be able to have them. No clanlead of the Niners has ever publicly disagreed with this agreement, and multiple "leadership" PCs have agreed with it. That's IC and public.

Matt wrote:
That's very true. Well the parts you pointed out about canon. It's been annoying to me how happy go lucky the Reds/NG have been with each other since opening personally.

A rising tide floats all boats, especially on scav runs and when fighting active threats outside of Rust. Cooperation leads to wealth, and not dying. These are important. If you think the New Guard/Reds/Niners aren't in political conflict, and haven't had scuffles/challenges offered back and forth, you're having a very narrow view of the gameworld.


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It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
Cohenator
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:57 pm      Reply with quote

I've personally had some problems with the new guard and reds giving zero fucks about anyone else or what they think, as well as active attempts to deprive me of basic goods as means of demeaning me and removing my relevance in this setting.

It's bordering on making indies unplayable, advice for game structure.

I feel like I was a little unclear. To be more specific, I've fealt that the New Guard and Reds have targetted characters of mine in the past just because they were indy and sought to basically deprive me of everything I need to work my craft skills, thus making my character practically unplayable except as a ratter/slave.


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Mannfreid
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:58 pm      Reply with quote

grandpa wrote:
Mannfreid wrote:
Well, speaking of Canon then. Indies are also supposed to be formidable enough that the families don't control the whole city, and can't thoroughly enforce there law on neutral turf, because the gangs would shoot them in the face, and they don't have the manpower to hold those area's and do that.

Also, it's Canon that the three families don't really like each other. But here we have two opposing clan leads so close [they are controlling the whole city and enforcing their law thoroughly there


You're referring to an agreement that all three Family clanheads set at the start--one that they only -claim- to enforce on their own turf/outside the city itself, that they haven't -actually- ever ICly enforced, and that refers to items of such vast wealth that literally only PCs/Family NPCs will ever be able to have them. No clanlead of the Niners has ever publicly disagreed with this agreement, and multiple "leadership" PCs have agreed with it. That's IC and public.

Matt wrote:
That's very true. Well the parts you pointed out about canon. It's been annoying to me how happy go lucky the Reds/NG have been with each other since opening personally.

A rising tide floats all boats, especially on scav runs and when fighting active threats outside of Rust. Cooperation leads to wealth, and not dying. These are important. If you think the New Guard/Reds/Niners aren't in political conflict, and haven't had scuffles/challenges offered back and forth, you're having a very narrow view of the gameworld.


No, I'm speaking of more then that. I mean there are.ahem...[Rules -HAL]

And of course no Nine has came against there agreements. The nines can't possibly fight BOTH other families. So essentially you got two clan leads being far closer then canon should allow, and forcing there will on another, or they could potentially whipe out there whole clan.

Also, yeah, there have been brief dissagreements with the reds and NG. But it's because like, a NG runs off, shoots up red turf. then the leaders get together, talk for a moment, and pretty much kiss and make up.

Now I didn't play atonement. But the one thing I heard from several friends that did was there was a few high powered people that refused to let anyone else get decent gear, or gain any influence, and would kill them. And that is why a lot of people left.

Staff might want to look into the issue before it starts again.


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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:11 pm      Reply with quote

Mannfreid wrote:
No, I'm speaking of more then that. I mean there are.ahem... [Rules -Hal]

And of course no Nine has came against there agreements. The nines can't possibly fight BOTH other families. So essentially you got two clan leads being far closer then canon should allow, and forcing there will on another, or they could potentially whipe out there whole clan.


See game theory/truels. No clan would risk committing to the destruction of the other Family, because it imbalances/puts them more at risk than with both clans around. They wouldn't even try.

And OOCly you don't understand the code if you think the Niners couldn't defend against the New Guard/Reds combined.

Putting this in perspective: The ban you're referring to, Mannfreid--let's assume there's a player that has a full suit of oquality kevlar and a .35 caliber rifle. A .35 caliber rifle is a full bar of metal and around half a bar of plastic. It's 24 hours of craft timers for a whole oquality rifle, or 18 if you have the multi-use mechanisms handy. Plus magazine costs(more plastic), and 2.7 chips per a .35 caliber bullet if you're making them -yourself-. Kevlar's three bolts and three bars, and a jug of resin(silver required), plus 24 hours.

So 48 hours of timers, 3 bolts of cloth, 3.5 bars of plastic, a bar of metal, 40-50 chips for bullets, silver/resin--this is richer than 99% of the world.


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It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
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Featured artwork used on Parallel RPI given permission for use by original artists macrebisz and merl1ncz.