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How to Avoid Stagnation
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clock
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:48 pm      Reply with quote

I'm just going to paste a little blurb of a conversation I had with Lokilol and hope someone catches on to what I'm saying, and we can make something happen from it:

:25:59 ‹Lokilol› What about the Families, though?
22:26:11 ‹clock› they're all too close, they share too many problems
22:26:12 ‹clock› see
22:26:17 ‹clock› the other thing about my example above
22:26:53 ‹clock› if you go to MM while fred and sally are still in osgi and june and joe are already in MM
22:27:06 ‹clock› then fred dies and comes to MM while june dies and goes to Osgi
22:27:15 ‹clock› by the time you die and go back to Osgi some months later
22:27:18 ‹clock› it has a whole different vibe
22:27:24 ‹clock› because of June's influence
22:27:34 ‹clock› meanwhile MM was changing before your eyes because of Freds
22:28:20 ‹clock› things stay fresh
22:28:30 ‹clock› they don't get stagnant because the mix of players is always changing
22:29:04 ‹clock› the familes could work
22:29:08 ‹clock› but they need distinct motives
22:29:09 ‹clock› like
22:29:33 ‹Lokilol› Yeah.
22:29:39 ‹Lokilol› The current families are in stagnation
22:29:39 ‹clock› the Niners can't get water, but they're sitting on top of a junk yard which serves as the only source of metal in the city
22:29:51 ‹clock› how cool would that be?
22:30:02 ‹clock› so the uh
22:30:05 ‹clock› NG
22:30:10 ‹clock› they should have all the water
22:30:15 ‹clock› but other than that, like nothing
22:30:20 ‹clock› yet that alone makes them extremely powerful
22:30:24 ‹clock› and probably rich
22:30:31 ‹clock› depending on which direction they go in
22:30:52 ‹clock› and the Reds should just have space, and NPC firepower
22:31:00 ‹clock› a huge chunk of territory, lots of guns
22:31:17 ‹clock› does this not sound like a much more fun game than the one you're playing?
22:39:56 ‹Lokilol› I think that'd be an interesting turn of events
22:40:05 ‹Lokilol› To have a few areas added with minor mobs
22:40:13 ‹Lokilol› Maybe there's a small pack of barkers in the junkyard
22:40:27 ‹Lokilol› And crocs in the water refinery for the New Guard
22:40:49 ‹Lokilol› And coyotes or the odd shredder in the Red's area

Try not to get stuck on the specifics here-- I came up with them on the fly, and there might be all kinds of problems with them. But if we can modify the variables to create some tangible separation between Families, this game suddenly gains flavor that it didn't have before-- so maybe it's not water, maybe it's something as far out as religion, or anything inbetween.

"But clock, we've got an established culture already, some of us like it how it is!"

Worry not, for it doesn't necessarily have to change! If retconning is too extreme (understandable) we can just introduce a new element, something that changes things up and redistributes the balance of power.

"That's too big a change!"

It's true, this will be an uncomfortable move for people who are perfectly happy right now. But if that's you, I'm begging you, please try to work with the rest of us as we change the game to give it more energy, and avoid stagnation. We don't want to ruin things for anyone, and if we work together, I believe we can make PRPI a better game for everyone by introducing some new complexities into the meta-political balance of power, specifically regarding the families. As for how we do it, that's where we need to discuss and perfect things, but this is something that I truly believe needs to be done, if this game is ever to push into the realm of RPI greatness, which is something I hope we all want.


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Flincher14
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:01 pm      Reply with quote

I like the concept, but it will feel like an admin hand out when it happens..but if we get past that its good. If one family litterally controls all the water so that you have to get cask of water from them rather than drink from a sink, that will work.

But the other suggestions don't work, space we don't need, and metal is suppose to be a scav thing.

What if there was only one source of water and only one family could control it at a time? Sure the three families can agree to share this source but in a time of conflict the strongest can take it over and use it as a weapon against the weaker family. Or maybe the families can collectively use this water source to take down the market's current incarnation.


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Starmonger
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Void Dreamer

Post Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:05 pm      Reply with quote

Could you provide a simple statement of what you're asking that doesn't involve a chat log. I'm reading it but I may interpret it wrong because of the short statements and such.

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clock
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:29 pm      Reply with quote

I'm asking for a major, distinct change in the dynamic between families that gives them each different goals, motives and methods.

Other than that, the rest was just one suggestion as to how that might happen, and why it might work.


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Tyrael
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:36 pm      Reply with quote

Admin plots and events avoid stagnation, such as the cannibals and plant monsters.
I think left to their own devices, players will get into a position where the game stagnates. Putting monsters inside the city usually just ends up with either people hoarding more hides and paste, and newbies getting killed, and doesn't add much. If the NG had all the water, it would simply turn out being either a massacre as one group tries to forcibly take it, or just a simple, brief agreement and then it gets handled easily.


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clock
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Post Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:03 am      Reply with quote

Admin plots and events are great! But at this point, it's like putting a bandaid on an open wound-- the gameworld needs to have its own energy, a natural balance that keeps things moving even when other plots run dry.

The change I'm suggesting would directly address that, and hopefully players would be more emotionally invested by the time admin plots rolled around, and they would be all the more intense as a result.


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Nedinu
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Post Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:37 am      Reply with quote

While I actually like the idea, there's probably a bunch of things needed to be fleshed out before considering it. Can only think of one thing right now before I go to sleep:

The families reaching some sort of an agreement, like Tyrael said, is pretty much a given. So if whatever benefit the supplies give that particular family that has it, it should fluctuate. That'll prevent the family from always knowing what they're going to get each time and plan for it, and it allows for some deceit during the unavoidable agreements; it makes the temptation of swindling the other families higher, though not hugely, and could result in some conflict that way.


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Holmes
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Post Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:55 am      Reply with quote

Is this you suggesting spheres again? Would you like a copy of the engine so you can go make Sphereatopia or whatever and stop suggesting it constantly here?

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Flincher14
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Post Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:35 am      Reply with quote

Holmes wrote:
Is this you suggesting spheres again? Would you like a copy of the engine so you can go make Sphereatopia or whatever and stop suggesting it constantly here?


Don't be a dick, that wasn't even close to what he was suggesting. Try reading a helpful suggestion from a player interested in helping your game.

What an asshole remark.


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crayon
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Post Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:52 am      Reply with quote

The problem is pretty clearly a cultural one. One that's recognized OOCly, is rooted in OOC things, and can only really be changed ICly. Some people are working on that.

Establishing individual identities for each of the families, things that make them unique, diverse cultures, is not best done by changing tangibles and retconning the lore. Proposing to do so for that reason is entirely disingenuous.

If you want the families to have unique cultures, practices, goals, and identities, it's up to YOU as the player, to put them into play through what you do ICly.


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