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Cybernetics: A fully-formed proposal
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Tracer
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Heir of the Sword of Damocles

Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:20 am      Reply with quote

I feel I have some feedback on step 1. Want or need.

Implement permanent injuries.

The requirement to receive the cybernetic part is always going to be need. The procedure is risky and expensive, who else but someone who wants there old functionality back should pursue this? Im not talking about coded benefit. This would add a depth to the realism of the world that would inspire conflict over skilled players and resources.

COMBAT IS TO LETHAL ALREADY MANG!!! Sad
Well not really. Most PC deaths I have seen were unavoidable. Super NPC hit them and got a brutality modifier. Luck of the draw. At a point in the RPI's life where damage values and combat itself is on the table for a rework a cybernetics proposal couldn't come at a better time. At a point where this could be implemented alongside a long outdated spammy combat code. No offense to the coders themselves. It has been greatly improved upon from SOI.

DONT FORCE ME TO RP BEING INJURED PL0X!!!
Then don't act like a fucking superhero and expect to walk away from the explosion in the background without looking back. Combat is dangerous. It is a risk. You can prepare for it but you cannot control it completely. A healthy, skilled combat PC should be just as valuable as a skilled crafter. Crafting risks the loss of materials and often requires burning timers. This means players that have crafting characters have already accepted being pigeoned-holed for the rest of the day and relinquish themselves to SOCIAL RP. This is not a punishment. It is encouraging interaction. Lose an eye? That sucks but your PC survived and has to adapt. This shows effort and development. Retire after you get injured?? This isn't a hack and slash. I could write volumes about players that have spoke to me about being bored at the keys during patrols or scav runs. We need to put that adrenaline pumping experience back into combat. Some players crave feeling their heart beat out of their chest when something happens to them.

I just want to point out that with this craft proposal something huge could potentially happen here. Characters could receive coded injuries that take PC interaction to solve. No admin involvement in that sequence if you keep it coded. No extra workload to the Staff which I believe is a goal of the original posters idea.

I also feel Step 1 should require a character with medicine and education to even properly see the injury. Even in 2013 if I think something is physically wrong with me I have no clue what it exactly is. Injuries should be coded with a different color on a PC's health display and mayhaps even in their description where temp motes are set.

I believe with the focus being practical character recovery the craftset will not become obsolete or unattainable if there is a small demand for it. Albeit the price. Let the statistical gains and RPP discussion happen between the PC receiving the surgery and the Staff if one is to be brought up. Main focus on the interaction and depth of roleplay. Not to mention something for families to work towards offering their members or paying customers.


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crayon
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:55 pm      Reply with quote

+1

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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:42 pm      Reply with quote

Quote:
Discussion about the coded/RPA 'requirements'/weight for this system(hopefully: null/minimal, respectively), and how to minimize them.

Any input on that part, Tracer/Crayon?


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Terminobber
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Elfin Slavemaster and Santa double

Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:18 pm      Reply with quote

Lurv the sudden injection of life and the discussion so far

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Tracer
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Heir of the Sword of Damocles

Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:27 pm      Reply with quote

Without a coded solution I wouldn't be sure how to approach this.

Create objects from crafts and have the staff adjust the pfile when crafts are completed.

Not sure really how else to offer any ideas when I wasted my time reading through and was shot down by a one line quote.

Anyways. I'll take this time to say I will be returning to the Mud soon. I have moved and am able to afford getting the internet turned back on. See you all in game before the end of the year mehopes. Smile


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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:55 pm      Reply with quote

Tracer wrote:
Without a coded solution I wouldn't be sure how to approach this.

Create objects from crafts and have the staff adjust the pfile when crafts are completed.

Not sure really how else to offer any ideas when I wasted my time reading through and was shot down by a one line quote.

Anyways. I'll take this time to say I will be returning to the Mud soon. I have moved and am able to afford getting the internet turned back on. See you all in game before the end of the year mehopes. Smile

It's not an attempt to shoot you down, honest. It's just that this is based entirely on player-work only. We need to reduce the Staff workload, or at least only 'increase' it minimally. I understand being enthused, but what you're describing is likely more the realm of the FutureMUD engine.

Ideas are great, it's just that they really can't be included in this unless they're non-code changes. The goal of the project is to work within what we have. We have one coder that's active, and I don't think this is within the realm of possibility. It's not an aim/goal of the project as-stated; I was told upfront that none of this would be implemented short of minimal admin intervention. It's not something that's going to see the light of day when filled with code-heavy suggestions.

Permanent injuries aren't something we're going to see anytime soon(nor am I convinced they're the best idea), and I'm not entirely sure(personally) what's wrong with cybernetics as a means of inquiring IG power. Certainly it's how the admins have presented cybernetics since the beginning with multiple cybernetic, extremely-powered badguys. Expensive, sure--but solely for injuries? I don't think that's the only way to treat them. Body modification/transhumanism/posthumanism is valid today--why not hundreds of years in the future?


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It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:04 pm      Reply with quote

Also, sorry for the Doublepost. First draft posted: http://forum.parallelrpi.com/viewtopic.php?p=7222#7222

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crayon
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:33 am      Reply with quote

grandpa wrote:
Quote:
Discussion about the coded/RPA 'requirements'/weight for this system(hopefully: null/minimal, respectively), and how to minimize them.

Any input on that part, Tracer/Crayon?


What I would do, personally:

1) Injury changes. Injuries are a chunk of your HP that's been taken away in damage. If uninfected, they heal naturally. If treated, a chunk of the HP is restored with some medicines, otherwise it boosts the healing rate and disinfects. That's how it works at the moment. I would include a new feature (that would basically be cloning infection with adjusted requirements and echos) that makes some especially critical injuries "permanent". Depending on location, I would also suggest including stat penalties for the permanent injuries, along with the HP loss, or have the HP injury and the stat loss treated separately. There are a multitude of effective ways to go about it.
--What this does:
---It fills the existing void in the 'necessity' department for obtaining cybernetics by creating a coded possibility of being crippled or injured.
---It thereby makes combat more scary, and more dangerous, even when not necessarily life-threatening. Living rough starts to feel rougher.
---It makes cybernetics carry more of the benefit/sacrifice feeling.

2) Medicine changes. It's on the table anyhow, may as well deal with it as a package? I would make treatment of said "permanent" injuries possible through a command linked to the medicine skill. I would include ways to go about removing the 'permanent' stat losses with expensive medical tools and a chance that the injury becomes permanent for real on failure. People shouldn't go into this expecting success. If that round of treatment fails, people can move on to cybernetics.
--What this does:
---It provides the alternative to cybernetics IG, for players and characters that would rather avoid it. We don't want to make the code pressure people to have them.
---It sets the stage for the 'means' by which to introduce cybernetics as a system.

3a) Cybernetics crafts. Crafts related to cybernetics. These would probably be some sort of biology/medicine/chemistry/electronics/mechanics multipart crafts that require massive timers from a wide variety of fields to put together a finished product. Finished products would work as treatment objects for...

3b) More medicine stuff. A medicine-tied command for implanting cybernetics (using cybernetic implant item as a treatment item, effectively). Cybernetic implants offer +1/+2/+3 depending on severity to a skill determined while making it, which is attached to the PC as a flag when the item is consumed. It would probably remove the permanent HP loss, but keep the stat loss, so you can counter your stat loss with matching implant to injury location, or you can boost another (for the same amount you're losing from the injury)..
--What this does:
---It holistically ties together the stat buffs/nerfs, injuries, and cybernetics into one complete system that works organically.
---By making the creation of the cybernetics require high-end crafts with high timers from each of several crafts we preserve some sensible scarcity.

4) Reintegrate the RPP system. The RPP system isn't that awful. I don't think removing or replacing it is really on the table, nor entirely necessary to achieve the desired end with cybernetics. What I mean by reintegrate, is establish rules regarding RPP and cybernetic acquisition both IG and in chargen. I would preserve the existing chargen system, while at the same time allow RPP to be used to 'bypass' the necessity of a permanent injury for IG implantation of cyberware, while preserving the requirement for the item and the surgery, or, alternatively, to get access to NPC aide in the installation/acquisition portion. That way RPP can still be relevant in bypassing some of the IG means, while making it less luck-based for people who want to take their character down a specific path, or for diseases/whim/non-coded injuries/etc.
--What this does:
---Brings the entire package together, keeping RPP a relevant but not defining part of the cybernetics process.
---Makes it possible for people to become cybernetic purely through RPP, rather than OOC point expenditures.
---Keeps the possibility of cybernetic in-game acquisition on the table for players with RPP that don't codedly come across the opportunity.

-----The workload-----
---Injury code changes.
---Several crafts.
---Item progging, probably.
---Staff maintenance.

The thing is, I'm not sure if there's really much to gain by changing the system as-is, without doing it right, and I'm not sure that the system as-is is really bad enough to warrant the work of changing it, if that makes sense?

I don't know. Maybe Chazz is up for taking a look to see how much work it would be to mess with. I would imagine a lot of the code could be recycled to make it happen, but. There are a lot of things to work on.


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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:14 am      Reply with quote

You missed my question, Crayon, which was: how do we implement perma-injuries without editing the code?

#1/#2: Your suggestion is as follows. "Every time you fight, there's a change you take a permanent injury. Every time you treat the permanent injury, there's a chance it becomes absolutely permanent/untreatable." Let's take a look at this idea, but for crafting. "Every time you craft there's a chance you are permanently injured. Every time you fix this permanent injury, there's a chance it becomes permanent/absolutely untreatable." It's not _fun_, and it's not going to be _fun_ to implement punishment for playing the game. Nobody would accept this. It's a roleplaying game, but it's based around code and having fun. Permanent, unfixable, unmitigatable negatives are bad. It's never going to be a good idea.

#3a/3b: Check the first draft, if you would.


#4:
Take that to the RPP thread, please!

Edited for needless hostility about RPP.


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crayon
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:14 am      Reply with quote

grandpa wrote:
You missed my question, Crayon, which was: how do we implement perma-injuries without editing the code?

#1/#2: Your suggestion is as follows. "Every time you fight, there's a change you take a permanent injury. Every time you treat the permanent injury, there's a chance it becomes absolutely permanent/untreatable." Let's take a look at this idea, but for crafting. "Every time you craft there's a chance you are permanently injured. Every time you fix this permanent injury, there's a chance it becomes permanent/absolutely untreatable." It's not _fun_, and it's not going to be _fun_ to implement punishment for playing the game. Nobody would accept this. It's a roleplaying game, but it's based around code and having fun. Permanent, unfixable, unmitigatable negatives are bad. It's never going to be a good idea.

#3a/3b: Check the first draft, if you would.


#4:
Take that to the RPP thread, please!

Edited for needless hostility about RPP.


ICA = ICC.

Permanent, unfixable, unmitigateable negatives are a part of life. We're playing an RPI. Sometimes bad sucky crappy awful things are going to happen to your character. They happen with or without injury code. That's a GOOD thing. These sorts of things CREATE RP. However, I would like to preserve the possibility of fixing it somehow, eventually, with luck and a ridiculously skilled doctor. Hence all of the quotation marks around the word permanent. I'm basically talking about infection but more difficult to get rid of, and only occurring sporadically on grievous+ injuries.

As far as your question(?) goes... here's the thing. With the position the staff is in, almost the entire game could use overhaul and reworking. There's that much work to be done on the game. And a lot of it's getting done. You're proposing an interim solution with ideally minimal assistance from staff with code/progging. I'm all for it. I'll chip in if there's anything that needs done with crafting/building, if it's alright with staff. But putting effort into anything that isn't a long-term fix might very well be wasted effort. I'm really not sure if it will accomplish much.

The craftsuites, et cetera that you've discussed in your proposal are all doable, I'm still entirely for making this happen as a short-term fix. But short of code, there's no way to decrease the reliance on staff applying those boosts manually after receiving logs/petitions.


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Featured artwork used on Parallel RPI given permission for use by original artists macrebisz and merl1ncz.