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Cybernetics/RPP: Side-discussion
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Hyriana
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:31 am      Reply with quote

Not to nitpick, but since we already are: that's from the 3RPP Moderate Cybernetics. The minor version only has slight increase in function. I don't think it's weird to say that you could have cybernetics at a level that only perform as well as the original organic limb/organ/whatever too. These are bad knockoffs and backalley deals.

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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:41 am      Reply with quote

cruelcore wrote:
Quote:
[Your stats aren't particularly IC, and have only the most minimal of effects on how you play your PC: int isn't how smart your PC is.

"General: Intelligence

Intelligence is an objective measure of how well your mind acquires
and retains data, and also the ability to notice pertinent details."

[Wil isn't how stubborn your PC is.
"General: Willpower

Willpower measures the ability of your character to ignore pain and
adverse conditions while still performing at a decent rate."

It's IC, to some extent, but it's mostly related to the cold hard code. Stats are so minimal, and boosts to them are definitely OOC.


This isn't a fact. This is your opinion.


Sorry, no. That was taken directly from IG helpfiles. See help intelligence and help willpower.


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It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
cruelcore
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:35 am      Reply with quote

Yeah. I read them. I think you need to check the definition of those words.

Help intelligence basically outlines what it means to be smart. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/smart

Help willpower basically outlines what it means to be stubborn.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stubborn

Who even cares. The point is, physical stats are objective measurements of your character. They're IC. Cyborg limbs affect you physically. You didn't offer a counter-arguement when I last pointed that out, or pointedly chose to ignore it, so I'm taking that as an agreement.


Hyriana wrote:
Not to nitpick, but since we already are: that's from the 3RPP Moderate Cybernetics. The minor version only has slight increase in function. I don't think it's weird to say that you could have cybernetics at a level that only perform as well as the original organic limb/organ/whatever too. These are bad knockoffs and backalley deals.


From what I've read in the other thread, actually making these things is going to take ALOT of collaborative effort. I could get on board with useless cybernetic parts that offer no bonuses, that are easy to make, but the knock off parts should have the same effect regardless of who the PC is. (and how much RPP the player has)


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Hyriana
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:55 am      Reply with quote

cruelcore wrote:
From what I've read in the other thread, actually making these things is going to take ALOT of collaborative effort. I could get on board with useless cybernetic parts that offer no bonuses, that are easy to make, but the knock off parts should have the same effect regardless of who the PC is. (and how much RPP the player has)


I'd assume that the pure unboosted replacements would be lower levels of the craft and thus have lower timers.


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crayon
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:09 am      Reply with quote

Grandpa.

I'm going to go ahead and beg to differ on this.

Your stats do not exist solely to give you coded benefits.

They are a brief overview of your character's physical and mental strengths and weaknesses.

If your con is codedly how healthy you are. Your strength how strong you are. And you RP -those- two stats, why should you RP intelligence as not having a bearing on intelligence, or dexterity on dexterity? Because they're universally used by most older players as dumpstats? Too bad!

I'm going to just go out on a limb here, and say that if you aren't playing your stats, you're wrong. Which is tremendously rude and probably sounds like RP policing. I'm not saying this in specific regards to any individual, however.

-I- play my stats. And I think other people should too. In fact, I think that there's a strong argument to be made that playing your stats is an integral part of playing on an RPI.


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grandpa
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:04 am      Reply with quote

RE: Stats.
A counter-argument? Sure. Play a character with poor dexterity. Choose to go into combat. See how far you can get. Are you still 'clumsy' even with adroit weaponcrafting, adroit artitstry, high-adroit-to-low master deflect, dodge, small-blade, and dual-wield? Agility, and sneak/hide? What about the times your character--every character--considers taking on the establishment with average wilpower? Powers through having a twelve-inch gap on his face, still walking despite that? Figures out how to become an advanced medical doctor despite average int?

You play your stats. I play my stats. We just differ on what those stats mean. I think the skills mean more, and the stats just...define the outlying limits of your PC's potential.


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crayon
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:16 am      Reply with quote

Good counter-argument, grandpa.

But it still means that stats are as much an IC thing as they are an OOC thing.

Which, I honestly no longer remember the significance of!

Except it had something to do with RPP, and vehemently disliking it as a system. As a whole.

(Admittedly, I can't exactly think of a -better- system.)

In the case of cybernetics, however... if they're made available IG, post-CG, I don't think there should be an RPP cost attached to things that occur naturally IG (and IC). It would be like attaching an RPP cost to skillgains.

However. I could see keeping the possibility of -starting- the game with cybernetics, for an expenditure of RPP. Just as RPP already offers some boosts to how people come out of chargen. Which I still don't particularly like. But understand the necessity of.


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Tyrael
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:24 am      Reply with quote

except Crayon plenty of people will 'accidentally' lose an eye/limb/spine/testicle and need cybernetics and want the stat boosts. Everyone and their mother will be hunting for cybernetics, and look for ways to gimp their char to justify a 'natural' evolution of getting cybernetic parts.

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hobos
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:52 am      Reply with quote

Considering that it looks like it will take a lot of time and roleplay, and the PC will need to be well-connected, maybe RPP aren't necessary just for the sake of keeping cybernetics relatively rare.

Maybe, the roleplayed process should be logged, and when the new cyborg sends in a request for a desc/stat change, the staff can skim over the logs just to make sure that the situation was played adequately, without weird metagaming or stretching. If it's judged that the parts should fail, maybe they end up breaking down in a few phases despite the fact that all the crafts went through, and then the wannabe cyborg would be left severely handicapped.

That would make it suitably risky I think. Like if you want a major cybernetic you'd have to show lvl 4 roleplaying all the way through the thing as well as doing all the extra work and spending all the extra time, and just hope to God that your game is up to par if you're particularly invested in not failing. Wink


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cruelcore
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:27 pm      Reply with quote

grandpa wrote:
RE: Stats.
A counter-argument? Sure. Play a character with poor dexterity. Choose to go into combat. See how far you can get. Are you still 'clumsy' even with adroit weaponcrafting, adroit artitstry, high-adroit-to-low master deflect, dodge, small-blade, and dual-wield? Agility, and sneak/hide? What about the times your character--every character--considers taking on the establishment with average wilpower? Powers through having a twelve-inch gap on his face, still walking despite that? Figures out how to become an advanced medical doctor despite average int?


You don't need to be a genius to be a doctor or possess specialised knowledge. It just takes more work, and this is reflected by the code.

The same can be said for a low dex crafter with high skills. You're clumsy, but you've worked at it for so long that you've learned to get around it. A high dex crafter is still going to succeed more often than you are because they've got more natural talent. If your dex is particularly poor, you're going to be stuck with not at all impressive crafts even though you might have been practicing longer /because/ of how clumsy you are.

Edit: Dex also determines how potentially skilled you can be with a weapon. Though I think dex needs more tweaking so you don't need to have only 13-14, the point still stands that having too poor a dex (therefore being clumsy) will make you less skilled than a character that's more coordinated. If you've got low skill with the weapon, the stat probably doesn't matter, but I'd argue with novice swords you're wildly swinging the thing around and hoping for the best rather than doing anything overly skillful.


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