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Poll Question and Results: Why do you not log in anymore?
I do, just not as much because RP sucks 4 votes, 17%
I do, just not as much because the admin/other players suck and don't fix certain things/play the game how I think they should 1 votes, 4%
I do, just not as much because the game is broken 1 votes, 4%
Because the game is broke, RP sucks, and/or I don't like the admin/other players much 10 votes, 43%
I do log in, man, I'm there all the time! 7 votes, 30%
Total Votes : 23
Zerero
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:57 pm      Reply with quote

AdamBlue9000 wrote:
Personally, the game just isn't as interesting as it was.

Like, I used to log in and be like, 'oh yes there's 40 players on let's go do some stuff hang out have a party oh man CANNIBANDITS oh wow ROBOT DUDE and BARKERS THIS IS SO COOL I WONDER IF I COULD TAME A BARKER WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH THE ROBOT WHERE DID THE CANNIBANDITS COME FROM YES WE TOTALLY WRECKED THEIR SHIT AND RAN AWAY FROM HIS BOMB-FILLED BODY' and "OH MAN WARS AND JUNK WOAH BETRAYAL AND PEOPLE ACTING CRAZY AND PEOPLE GETTING OOC BUTTHURT OR SOMETHING HA HA IT DOESN't MATTER THIS IS FUN STUFF IN GAME' as well as "OH MY GOD ROBOT CITY JESUS QUBERT JUMPING CHRIST FUCKING ROBOTS WITH GUN HANDS BLOCKS OF GOLD WE FIND OUT WHAT YEAR IT ACTUALLY IS -HOLY FUCKING JESUS CHRIST A GODDAMN HOVERCOPTER MY DICK IS STEEL DIAMONDS-'


Lets not forget the period from launch up to a month or so after where 50-60 people played actively-- SHIT MAN, WE ALL SUCK LOL AND GOING OUTSIDE THE GATES AND FIGHTING GATOS GETS LIKE 3 OF US KILLED... AND IM MEETING NEW PEOPLE AND I DONT LIKE BOB AND LOL THIS IS AWESOME. All with staff running no plot.

Solutions:

1. Restarting the game would be fun. Why? Economy is inflated and shit, each family has enough gear to outfit a personal army, etc. And this time, at launch, keep resources sparse. Keep people weak and confused and disorganized, like in Alpha at certain points. You could even change the map to the Alpha ship or Atlas, if you wanted a smaller setting. Maybe do something like with Mars, but make the 'Mars' area whatever you wanted; EX. Rust, a vast jungle, etc. Exploration and PvE ahoy, matey!

or

2. Get rid of the families and delete a lot of the extra gear laying about. Freshen up the game and release that wilderness overhaul people have been jabbing about for months. If you don't want to get rid of families, overhaul them and get active leaders that want to create conflict and action and RP with everything in the clan. I don't want no nancy crafters playing house running me families, dawgz.

I don't know, I'm bored and those are my thoughts. Glad to see this forum pretty active when an interesting topic pops up! There really is nothing wrong with the staff, though sometimes I feel like they could take more initiate in steering the game in the right direction. I know it's supposed to be a sandbox, but yanno... Embarassed


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wirsindallein
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(ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧

Post Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:48 pm      Reply with quote

crayon wrote:
A lot of these points actually echo things I was considering a couple of months ago. I think the families could work as-is, if they were given a REASON for being, but with the present playerbase, having families seems more of a detriment than a boon to the game.

They presently don't have a reason to exist. That's exactly the problem, yes. I agree with you.

crayon wrote:

Is Flincher really saying the Market's too safe? I seem to recall somebody getting shot there some time ago. I don't know, maybe there's a way to increase one's likelihood of GETTING AWAY with doing dodgy things in the Market. That might help out here. But otherwise, the Market itself really is uh... kind of safe for a reason. You know. Let me just go get lots of pricey things as a crafter and sit around selling it somewhere that ISN'T safe.

Someone was shot in the market. Correct. Except they were shot, and killed, by a market NPC that staff animated. I know there have been two other deaths in the market, but in that instance it was because one of the players involved willingly put themselves in a position where the Market NPCs could not assist.
For it's size, I think it's too large and too prevalent, which only discourages conflict. I have to agree with Flincher on that. If the safe zone were cut down to only the bar and one or two rooms around that, I'd probably feel differently.

crayon wrote:

At the same time that it's too large, it's too small as well. There's nowhere to go and nothing to explore. It would be nice to open up some new things.

I remember I was very, very excited to explore when the game first opened. But there's, like, what...a grand total of 4 or 5 places to go? And of those, 2 of them are incredibly far away and actually lack scav? The world is large, and empty. You're right.

Hyriana wrote:
Just something to keep in mind about Families. The instant you break them up, other groups are just going to establish based on whatever cliques you already have in game. That's just how people work. Having them already existing now is fine as long as people go ahead and try and come up with some more story about how and why they are like they are.

Welcome to human nature! The difference, I think, is that you won't be a slave to your clique, and you will be to your family. Cliques also won't have locked doors to hide behind. We'll have a chance for things like betrayal and intrigue, which is, I think, a lot more appealing to most of the current playerbase than "two clans shooting at each other while a third watches."

Hyriana wrote:

The Red Company is the gimme, break into Hyperion with a side of keeping things together until they can actually manage to do that.

I always thought New Guard were going to be (as has been said) the Dons. Lording it up over the common folk, political maneuvering, and amassing a huge power base of wealth and resources. Then shoving it around to get what they want. "What they want" kind of being up to whoever is in charge for the moment. I feel like they'd be most interested in maintaining the status quo, since at least in their minds they're on top. And then throw in whatever weird project the leader decides on.

Niners are kind of like your typical orc tribe. The strongest (or person with the strongest supporters) is in charge. But really, no one is, because we're all in this for shits and giggles. I actually have the hardest time deciding what the Niner goal is besides 'kick ass and have fun'. Maybe that's enough?


As we've seen, things don't always pan out this way. In actual play, the Reds don't really have any recourse for trying to get into Hyperion. Thanks to the market, the New Guard doesn't have anyone to shove around and do their mafia schtick on. I also don't know if the Niner's have a goal.
The point is that none of these families are able to do what they're supposed to. Or they don't have anything to do, in the first place. In the end, they do nothing more than restrict avenues of roleplay thanks to that whole "you are a slave to your family" thing.

Roadhawk wrote:
Proliferation of the exact cause/effect of the code. How it works to a pretty accurate degree, what is the best and only way to do something, what is useless. Nit by any specific individual but the attitude as a whole.

The use if the above as justification for not doing something in a roleplaying manner despite it being somewhat fitting.

Degredation of roleplay in general, not in private groups and between specific people but as a general walk in go the bar and try to rp with somebody. Unless you have something to give them, they are not going to respond.

General forum attitude, old fashioned or not fuck and shit rarely need to be typed. Game fine, forums show a bit if class and respect.

Admins are fine, game is fine. Though i understand the aspects other people want fixed are big draws but not something that interests me personally.


I agree that this is a huge problem. I don't want to name names, but there are certain characters who will idle the minute their friend leaves, rather than interact with you, because they know you can't get them supplies to twink with.
It's on Staff to deal with that, though. There is, actually, nothing at all that we, as players, can do about that.

AdamBlue9000 wrote:
As it currently stands, most if not all leadership is absent.
I do not say this intending to be mean. I am saying this because I have with my own eyes hardly ever seen a person of leadership recently.

James of the New Guard disappeared a long time ago, then tried to come back when he heard he was being kicked out, then disappeared forever, leaving Bon to try and take up the reins, though I hardly see him ever anymore, though this is because he is trying to codewise improve the game, so he is not to blame for this.

The Red's leadership was killed when they tried to do something that a lot of people really didn't like, and then it sort of died off because a lot of people got extremely butthurt and left the game/ stopped playing, but it's not to say it's without leadership, Miranda I have not seen often, however. She tries very hard.

I'm not even sure who the leader of the Niners is. It seemed to change weekly because people squabbling literally -all the time- over trival things, especially since your first leader was killed within a week of the game opening.

I think, personally, you're relying far too much on IG leadership. Start things on your own. You actually do not need them to be online to make things happen.
In my opinion, some of the most interesting things to happen so far happened precisely because someone decided not to ask their clanlead for permission to do things.
I will say that I think the game should have opened without clanleads, like Atonement apparently did. But that's neither here nor there at this point.

AdamBlue9000 wrote:

There are no leaders, with no ideas to do anything. People are just idling, waiting for something to happen that never will unless an admin happens to be around. And unless things happen, people get bored and leave. And if people get bored and leave, there aren't enough people around for admins to do anything for. And so the circle continues, unless we -do- something about it.
What do we do?
What the fuck do we do?

You gather people, and you make yourself the leader of your clan then. And if it wouldn't be in-character to usurp power, you lead people anyways and defer to your clanlead when they're online.
Don't think you have enough people in your clan? Come up with something anyways. Work around your limited manpower. These are problems you can interact with.

Or they would be if clans had a purpose. I guess I feel your pain.

Zerero wrote:

Some stuff

I agree with all of this. Point #2 is my favorite. There's a reason we're friends.


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slyviolin
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Sometimes I struggle with my demons. Other times we just fuck and have cheesecake.

Post Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:10 pm      Reply with quote

Point 1 : If families were abolished, people would group up anyway.

Yes they would, but it would be natural grouping rather than being jammed together artificially. Perfect example : Shran Medical. When they were about they were a big ticket item. They were powerful and nearly on par with the families. They built themselves up and earned their respect unlike families who just get respect cause it's written in canon they do.

Point 2 : Market to safe

I.. I have to agree with Wirs and Flincher on this. There were PC's that live their entire lives in the market. That's not a dangerous life... They are pretty much free to run there mouths off, piss people off and know that if someone tries to come after them aggressively they're going to get killed by market guards. No warning from market guards, no slap on the wrist, just killed. The market at the moment is a safe place, but it's also being used as a shield for people who don't want to play in the dangerous cut-throat place I think Rust should seem to be but still want to 'neener neener' at people.

Point 3 : Clan goals

I have no idea the Red's goal is to get into Hyperion other than the stuff I see out here on the forums. Based on all the IG things my character sees they seem to be a bunch of social workers hell-bent on making the most out of Rust.

When I first started playing I thought the Red's clan would be the cut-throats ruthless bastards with the motto 'our way of the highway'. When it comes to a clan being described as militaristic I admit to seeing them as non-compasssionate, driven and if you're not a Red then your in our way. Not cute matching uniforms and making parks for the slummer children to play in.

As for the New Guard, again when I first started playing I thought they would be the king-pins of their turf. Making thier lives cushy and comfortable then trickling the comfort down to their turf and the select few that help them. pretty much what the Reds are doing now but with a bit more emphasis on clan comfort first. But in the beginning of the game the clan was used pretty much as a way for the leader to get his personal goals done and that's all.

To me, the Reds aren't following their goal but seem to have usurped the guard's start-up goal. however I might have been grossly misunderstanding the concepts intended for start up.


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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:55 pm      Reply with quote

slyviolin wrote:

Point 3 : Clan goals

I have no idea the Red's goal is to get into Hyperion other than the stuff I see out here on the forums. Based on all the IG things my character sees they seem to be a bunch of social workers hell-bent on making the most out of Rust.

When I first started playing I thought the Red's clan would be the cut-throats ruthless bastards with the motto 'our way of the highway'. When it comes to a clan being described as militaristic I admit to seeing them as non-compasssionate, driven and if you're not a Red then your in our way. Not cute matching uniforms and making parks for the slummer children to play in.
...
To me, the Reds aren't following their goal but seem to have usurped the guard's start-up goal. however I might have been grossly misunderstanding the concepts intended for start up.


The Hyperion Goal can only be attempted/hinted at with Staff Intervention. Without Staff, there's no real way to make Hyperion matter. That's the reason the 'social work'/make-the-most-of-Rust goals were invented. It fits the Red's endgoal(get into Hyperion to improve Rust), while allowing it to be entirely player-driven and minimally admin-dependent.

That said, the Red Company has the strongest culture/history created by players--they have their own mythology, which has conservative and liberal interpretations both, and a much more solid set of culture/'rules'/norms than any other clan. They have their own greeting/salute, their own detailed history(written by Hyriana), they had their own player-created fighting event and a bar that was entirely player-crafted/fixed up. They have a hierarchy, an order to them that, while perhaps closer to paramilitary/militia than a total military, is entirely in theme.

The New Guard were decadent, cronyism-based enlightened absolutism. That the New Guard leader was using it to further his own goals is of course entirely IC/to be praised. Absenteeism was the only thing that went wrong there.

The Niners were chaotic, lazy, and self-destructive. Awesome. That seems kinda IC, doesn't it?


That said...there are some criticisms to be passed around. RE: clans not following cultural goals, let's get down to it: the New Guard were at one point moving in secret/disguising their presence while committing to a joint aggressive war in an alliance with their most fierce historical enemies. The prideful New Guard? Skulking in the dark, features masked, lying on the radio about their intentions. The independent Niners? Equal allied partners to the New Guard, their most hated enemies. The Niners tended to follow an absolutist belief rather than the Boss being First-Among-Equals, which probably would've fit the clan better. Even a pretense(like the early Roman Empire) at First Among Equals would've fit the Niners better.

Lore is not something that players tend to follow, and even huge, incredible breaches will go uncared for/excused. You have to beat lore into people, and absent significant attempts to follow it, people just won't.

PCs don't exist in clans. PCs exist, and they might follow clan rules/culture, maybe, slightly, possibly.


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It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
Roadhawk
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We lurk inside your brain, we hide inside your mind.

Post Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:56 am      Reply with quote

Yeah. That last sentence by gpa pretty much sums it up. When we get to a point to when the majority become antitribu (could not think of any otber word) towards lore or established canon things will go down hill.

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Lowdy
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:38 am      Reply with quote

I think that despite the on-goings of the game, the lore is being stuck to minimally. With the lack of people/staff it makes it significantly harder not to rely on inter-family ties to get ANYTHING done at all. When a vine can end a scav party just by chancing upon it or a family has a total of 2 active members, it really degenerates how things sometimes pan out. We as a community have to make this game better, but only with what we can muster together as a whole until we get the pendulum swinging again.

I absolutely loved it when I was a niner, the RP was great and the interactions between families kept me on my toes. But by all accounts, somewhere we took a wrong turn and now the mud is starting to look like a ghost town. I still stay as a VERY active player, even as the game slows down to a creeping halt for these holidays. If I could do ANYTHING at all, I would. I have no idea as to how I can, however. A lot of ideas are swinging around like breaking up the families, and introducing a new culture COULD do something. Even if the market was made more dangerous, it could even help. But what I want to know, is what I can do to breath what little life I can back in. This is more of a request for ideas than anything, but I feel utterly incapable of doing such as just a regular player.


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Yoink
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:54 am      Reply with quote

Oh yes, I whole-heartedly agree with removing the Market Guards!
The whole 'OOC safe zone' thing was a dumb idea to begin with, especially having seen how terrible it was back in Grungetown. Have Bjork remain a law into himself, keeping armed violence out of his bar, and leave the rest of town for the Families to police.
You know, like it is according to the lore...?

Having an all-powerful, NPC-only faction insta-gibbing PCs, especially in such a central part of the gameworld, is never a good idea. The market certainly contributed to me getting tired of the game, now that I'm reminded of it.


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kel
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:05 pm      Reply with quote

The idea of a 'safe zone' lies in the fact that not everyone is looking to play the conflict game + unfortunate share of twink PKers + running to the market has never actually stopped someone from getting ganked, it has, at most, just delayed it a bit. As a good deal of IC history shows.

And if memory serves from older discussion, in the old game where the families were left to police the market, that had later been declared one of the worst game decisions ever made.

And if you remove the market guards, then you'd have to remove the locks on the family base doors. With the growing trend of people who never leave the 'safe zone' of their base.


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wirsindallein
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:20 pm      Reply with quote

Lowdy wrote:
A lot of ideas are swinging around like breaking up the families, and introducing a new culture COULD do something. Even if the market was made more dangerous, it could even help. But what I want to know, is what I can do to breath what little life I can back in. This is more of a request for ideas than anything, but I feel utterly incapable of doing such as just a regular player.

At this point, I think the game is far too gone for the players to do anything. It's in staff hands now, and once they do something, we, as players, can try to help bring people back through word of mouth.

Yoink wrote:
Have Bjork remain a law into himself, keeping armed violence out of his bar, and leave the rest of town for the Families to police.
You know, like it is according to the lore...?

Yes plz

kel wrote:
And if you remove the market guards, then you'd have to remove the locks on the family base doors. With the growing trend of people who never leave the 'safe zone' of their base.
How is this a problem? Yes. Let's do this.

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Roadhawk
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We lurk inside your brain, we hide inside your mind.

Post Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:31 pm      Reply with quote

Because when one player gets enough power they go mad, just as the players who occasionally use the safe zone to avoid consequences so too does the top dog who exploits his position to kill people for the slightest reason. Only it is worse when they do as they are meant to be our best and brightest. They avoid the VNPC reaction to their rampant abuse. The lone twink affects few beyond the handful of PC's they screwed over.

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