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Poll Question and Results: Why do you not log in anymore?
I do, just not as much because RP sucks 4 votes, 17%
I do, just not as much because the admin/other players suck and don't fix certain things/play the game how I think they should 1 votes, 4%
I do, just not as much because the game is broken 1 votes, 4%
Because the game is broke, RP sucks, and/or I don't like the admin/other players much 10 votes, 43%
I do log in, man, I'm there all the time! 7 votes, 30%
Total Votes : 23
kel
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:42 pm      Reply with quote

kel wrote:
And if you remove the market guards, then you'd have to remove the locks on the family base doors. With the growing trend of people who never leave the 'safe zone' of their base.
How is this a problem? Yes. Let's do this.[/quote]

Because I doubt the majority of the playerbase would approve?

That's the problem with threads like this. A few outspoken people with an opinion one way or the other merge and make it seem like it's something everyone would approve of. When the majority of the playerbase simply doesn't want to get involved, if they approve of it or not.


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wirsindallein
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:51 pm      Reply with quote

kel wrote:
wirsindallein wrote:
kel wrote:
And if you remove the market guards, then you'd have to remove the locks on the family base doors. With the growing trend of people who never leave the 'safe zone' of their base.
How is this a problem? Yes. Let's do this.


Because I doubt the majority of the playerbase would approve?

That's the problem with threads like this. A few outspoken people with an opinion one way or the other merge and make it seem like it's something everyone would approve of. When the majority of the playerbase simply doesn't want to get involved, if they approve of it or not.

I've already mentioned in my previous posts that I don't think that everyone agrees with what's being said here. You clearly don't, and as the only real voice of dissent against it at the moment...Can you please give a more thorough explanation of why?


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kel
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:11 pm      Reply with quote

It's a matter of appealing to different types of players. You have players who love conflict. You have players that hate conflict. You have players that love combat. You have players that hate combat. And you have all the ones in between.

Some people will only play Family. Some will only play Indie. Some will go back and forth. Some people focus on RP. Some people focus on skill gains. Some people like to do both.

And I've found the ones that are all for conflict and fighting to often be the most vocal ones.

The problem is, there's really no room on the internet for "niche" muds. Right now, Parallel is sort of ending up a niche mud, with the current almost-no-conflict. A lot of the talk now, in this thread, is flipping it over to a heavy-conflict with little chance for peace. That would just turn it into another type of niche mud. It might bring some old players back, but at the same time, chase some current players away.

So balance needs to be found. And changes shouldn't be made on the actions of a few. The market isn't a perfectly safe zone. Ask Mertz about that. And there are plenty of ways Families can apply pressure and make things horrid for those who find haven in the market. If you stay in the market, you become dependent on other PCs for everything. For food (unless you go in the sewers to hunt, which is far from a safe zone), for supplies, for everything. And if you're dependent on other people, that means you're vulnerable. Seen it happen plenty of times. It just requires political-type-conflict (which is fun when it happens) instead of the old fallback shoot-them-dead-conflict.

So safe havens, be it the market or a sealed Family base, are important appeals to certain aspects of the playerbase. And irksome to others, those who like physical conflict. So let's not break something that's currently working, let's focus on fixing the thing that isn't working, the lack of conflict. Namely, the wilderness things. Making scavs possible, with the sort of numbers that can be put together now. With enough risk to add the danger element. But not make it so you need dozens of people. Restore the farther out scav zones to their original state, and now the thread-bare condition they're in now. Give people the motivation to go on the longer trips. Get things like that going, and a number of the people who aren't currently happy, likely will be again.

And some staff plots would be nice, as well. Parallel was always advertised as sandbox, the staff never promised to run non-stop plots. But if people stopped griping at them so much, to make them feel un/under appreciated, I bet they'd be willing to do a bit more.


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Zerero
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:59 pm      Reply with quote

kel wrote:
The idea of a 'safe zone' lies in the fact that not everyone is looking to play the conflict game + unfortunate share of twink PKers + running to the market has never actually stopped someone from getting ganked, it has, at most, just delayed it a bit. As a good deal of IC history shows.

And if memory serves from older discussion, in the old game where the families were left to police the market, that had later been declared one of the worst game decisions ever made.

And if you remove the market guards, then you'd have to remove the locks on the family base doors. With the growing trend of people who never leave the 'safe zone' of their base.


I guess we're thinking about a different game here, Compadre.

The Wilmington PCs never truly ran the market. There were still a hefty amount of market guard NPCs roving about (who happened to be Wilmingtons), and no one in the Wilmington really blatantly made use of the extremes of their power besides Bruce Bammer (our lord and Savior). This wasn't a broken part of the game; that was the game. Wilmingtons were some tough mofos.

When the top Wilmingtons said hey-hoe and made for the ship and all the market NPC guards disappeared... that wasn't a 'massive failure' by the game's staff. It was blatant and realistic mayhem. People running about, beating each other up, heated duels and rallies. I'm just surprised the Reds and Birds didn't gang up sooner during that period and fuck up the rowdy folk that were up and about.

And the SBS Atlas was ran truly and solely by PCs, and I'm pretty sure most people would have called it a success. So, yeah, in my opinion I think PCs can govern themselves quite fine.

Also, fleeing into the market has saved dozens and dozens of people. The 'growing' trend of people hiding behind locked doors really isn't growing. It was a major issue in Atonement from early beta and proves to be a popular topic going into Parallel.


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norwegianjesus
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:14 am      Reply with quote

Well I am glad to see this has provoked discussion.

Too much bitching in IMs inspired me to write this and get it out in the open.

Also glad to see Terminobber talking/reading cause I am sure people who give their free time to GM want to see how their effort is being received.

Okay so I have some points to make based on what I read.

1. ADMINS DON'T DO ENOUGH -

This is not fair to say. I've been witness to plenty of little and big admin roleplay interactions and well, they are putting the effort in to 'make things happen'. I think the proportion of players killed by the admin-driven-rp is fair and hasn't harmed the population overall. I think any talk of 'code fixes' or updates to systems is really dependant on manpower. Perhaps if there are people with knowledge of code and willingness to help they can apply for a position and help out like Crayon.

2. WE NEED MOAR CONFLICTS AND NO LOCKED DOORS, NOWHERE SHOULD BE SAFE.

Like someone else said, you are alienating certain groups of players by driving the theme to this extreme. There are plenty of games out there that feed this need for PVP. Many many shooters, emergent survival-of-the-fittest zombie games. Etc. But we are here to explore the human condition through RP, not get our jollies off in a 'yolo' community. The market ICly is a result of traders needing to safely trade. You see that theme in many games, in RL history, and other sources of fiction (*drumroll). Freetown's exist because there is a need for them to exist. If someone is running their mouth in the market, RP it. Earn their trust and get them in a dark corner and beat the ever living snot out of them. Pay someone to do it. Risk being betrayed. Risk them turning the tables on you.

3. IT IS A GHOST-TOWN AND NOBODY RP'S.

As a Niner PC and as a indie PC I have not failed to find RP. I've RP'd with people I find boring because my character had motivation or because it was fitting for my character. I might've made that person's day. Or they might think I too am boring. But the point I am making - I have found RP, I have sought it out, and sometimes I have created it. Why is this not possible for other people? In theory, if more people were putting the same, sometimes casual, effort that I put in to finding RP, then the RP available would increase.

4. DESTROY FAMILIES

Play an indie if you don't like being a slave to the family theme. Like someone said, finally getting the metal so someone can armour plate the armour you had to negotiate and trade for is satisfying. Working your butt off ICly to get scrips every phase and then swapping those for essential food packets or flavour packets. Trying to swindle more than your fair share in a deal. Living in a world where YOUR effort is make or break. It is possible. It exists. Try it. But not everyone wants to play like that, some people want to be part of the lore of a particular family and want to play out that lore. Don't speak for them and say it breaks the game, change YOUR angle.

5. I'M BURNED OUT, DON'T HATE ME

That's fine. Nobody blames you for taking a break. This thread was begun to address the people who complain and bitch and piss and moan and point the finger at everybody else but themselves.

6. FAMILIES HAVE LOADS OF EXCESS SHIT AND NOTHING IS HARD, WE'RE ALL FAT AND LAZY AND JUST MUDSEX ALL THE TIME

In regards to excess, I do like the idea of being able to trade excess goods to NPC traders in return for SOMETHING. Maybe not chips because chips are, allegedly, building up with nowhere to go for some lucky dogs. The opinion polls are open on THIS one, but it is true that when you get new PC after new PC wanting to do their thing, crafted goods do inevitably build up.

7. WE CANNOT DO NUFFINNNNN, IT'S ALL BROKE TILL ADMINS FIX IT

I think, regardless of what is thought of the Red faction's RP, they have proved that you can do something, you can effect the game with your RP, and you can achieve something as a family. It's just on people to make it happen and ask admin for support where required or approach admin with ideas about where you want a certain roleplay to go and find out what they feel about said roleplay so you don't roleplay yourself into a brick wall when you decided to RP your character's ascension to godhood after building a tower of skulls.

8. WE NEED MORE EXCITING RP AND NEW STUFF

I think that when I was a builder for the game that never happened Wilde was talking a lot about having RP and conflict that is not related to PVP and is more to do with conspiracy, and other political driven RP, with less emphasis on slaying eachother and more emphasis on human behaviour.

I would like to see this happen. Hats off to the admin for making the monsters and supernatural intrigue happen, but perhaps, and flying in the face of conflict advocates, this is the way to go to solve some stagnation claims and re-address the goals of the families, the power balance, etc.

For example - The Southside flu epidemic dies down or is solved by medical advances and there is so much confusion and misery there that there is an opportunity for turf grabbing.

Or, completely non-pvp, a mysterious radio signal is found cycling on a previously unused frequency which leads to a mystery that unravels about more Hyperion related stuff, stuff that paints the New Guard in a bad light. But the mystery reveals to the New Guard information that would benefit them, thus putting them in a position of needing to deceive the other families and race for the cake.

I say completely non-pvp but there is a potential for a cracker to go off in any situation, but hopefully my attempt to give an example will inspire peoples imagination who have better ideas.

But post that shit to the admin - stir things up, and not neccessarily to benefit your own clan!

Okay. So that is my say and in closing..

I really enjoy the game and find I have enough RP to keep me going, I don't mudsex much, not much of it about to be honest, and I don't hide behind locked doors. I think this claim of people doing this is blown far out of proportion, especially as I see all of the players I interact with, which is probably everyone by now, outside doing scav things, in market, not in the market. So please, wind your necks in and don't spread this fallacy.


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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie

Post Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:50 pm      Reply with quote

All threads like these are are a way to let off steam. They don't do anything, and nothing mindblowing will be done at this point short of admins.

But the game(read: any RPI) is always in a state where you can log in, create roleplay, and have fun. That's never not true, as long as there are players available.


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kog
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:50 pm      Reply with quote

Popping in with my $.02.

I quit playing because a lot of my friends did. And they quit playing because of some of the player mindsets, really - the aggro on the forums has killed my interest in playing pretty consistently every time. Maybe I just have bad luck, but I always seem to stumble into the topics with everyone snarking/sarcasming/yelling at each other in all caps, and I don't feel like dealing with it any more.

Back on ARPI, part of the fun I had was going off and depring around on my own, exploring/scavving/etc. But it was nice, then, because I didn't have a stealth character. I just had Toz, and he couldn't hide at all.

I think one of my favorite scenes ever was actually when Toz and Jain wandered off shortly before Jain died, and just...walked and talked. Small group stuff, or one-on-one, is my preferred method of RP. And with the 20+ man runs sometimes, or dragging along 10 people to the sewers so nobody can fight and everyone is spamming rescue so they can level their precious blocking and nobody really gets to fight? That kinda burned me out, a lot.

Suppose the tl;dr of all this is, I came expecting one kind of game and hoping for a certain kind of atmosphere, and didn't really get it. Which is fine, I'll never like DotA either but it's still a solid game from a gamer standpoint. So, maybe I'll try again some day or maybe not - but there you have it.


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imany
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:01 pm      Reply with quote

I'm just popping in, I know I'm late to the party, I've only scanned the thread, and forgive me if this has already been said.

My #1 problem and reason behind my lack of interest in PRPI is because it lacks a metaplot.

When I quit PRPI several months ago, I'd burnt out on small time drama. I recall someone putting it something like this: I didn't sign up to play PRPI to play in the moon version of 90210 with large group stat grinding. After awhile, I lost interest. And I held out longer than any of the people who signed up to play with me. It just wasn't fun to play.

I only joined up with ARPI during Part IV, when the SBS Atlas was coasting and there were regular bug raids etc. The thing I absolutely loved about it was that I could log in and there would regularly be something happening, a moving storyline full of action and horror. Whatever was happening would make characters have feels. Then they'd talk to each other about it.

Yeah, players can make that happen. Grandpa proved it with the apparently much-spoken about Red Gate. But making that happen? It took several weeks of IC grinding up materials, then a few bits of crafting, with some Leadership Plotting thrown in, with the payout of 2-4 days worth of RP. The admin is way, way, way better equipped to be Making Things Happen.

A certain amount of that is the administration's responsibility. Running a storyline like that is hard work. It's hard and time consuming and extremely draining. So I get why people might not want to do it. But at the same time, it's necessary for an RP-centric game like what PRPI was supposed to be. Otherwise, it just doesn't feel like there's a point in logging in.


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malfunction
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:11 pm      Reply with quote

I see what you mean, but many successful games lack a metaplot. Armageddon for one. I think the main problem with parallel is that the setting encourages cooperation instead of conflict and no one plays a game so they cooperate. Clock was right all along. :doomsday prophet:

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wirsindallein
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(ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧

Post Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:25 am      Reply with quote

malfunction wrote:
Armageddon for one. I think the main problem with parallel is that the setting encourages cooperation instead of conflict and no one plays a game so they cooperate.


This is really funny, given one staff member's apparent dislike of Arm, which they felt the need to share regularly during the first few weeks.


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Featured artwork used on Parallel RPI given permission for use by original artists macrebisz and merl1ncz.