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 Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:22 pm |  |
Think and Feel.
Personally, I use these in two scenarios. One, I'm alone, and bored, and toss some random thinks/feels out to express the joy/dullery/frustration/horror of the day.
And, what I consider to be the more important use. When I'm doing something "false". IE when my IC actions conflict with the personality of my character. This could be making nice to someone I actually dislike. Or making a deal that seems contrary to my character's best interest. All in all, to provide a medium of justification to any possible observing staff members who are scratching their head saying "What the hell, why are they doing this, it doesn't make sense?"
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:33 pm | |
| Blondie wrote: |
I don't codedly -think- because in my head I've got a good idea already of how my character sees a situation.
....
It feels like I'm roleplaying with myself and that is a strange, out of place sensation that I reserve for actually writing stories.
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I use think -a lot-. Like, little paragraphs of thinks, especially when solo-RPing. Which I also do a lot.
My reasons for doing it are exactly why you don't: I don't ever really have a good idea of how my PC feels about a situation, it all is pretty spur of the moment and impulsive, and the think command helps me get a handle on my PC's personality.
Doing it this way, though, does seem to limit me to a specific type of character, and one that brings out all my own personal insecurities. Ah well, no badass PC's for me!
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:15 pm | |
| starsignal wrote: |
| Blondie wrote: |
| I feel that since regular characters can only see and interpret my character through my actions that all my efforts should go towards fleshing them out through that medium. I don't codedly -think- because in my head I've got a good idea already of how my character sees a situation. |
I think you've voiced really well my frustration with the commands. Right now I'm trying a tack in which, when faced with a situation IG and it occurs to me that my character might think something she wouldn't say out loud, I use the command. I feel like it sort of bridges the gap between "thinking is awkward" and "I should use ALL THE THINKS". |
I don't think continuously, but I'm not really sure I could RP in the style that I've settled into (which is to say, comfortably) if the think command didn't exist.
I actually do a lot of solo RP that has nothing to do with how other characters might view or interpret my PC (and yes, I emote to empty rooms when I do this -- which has hidden benefits, when there are hidden occupants of said rooms  ), for my own benefit in fleshing out who my character is, what their motivations are, and how they develop as events shape them. In fact, when I first make a character, I prefer to spend a lot of time alone before I ever interact extensively with other characters, and if I don't have that opportunity it really gets in the way of becoming comfortable in the character's skin.
I also find solo RP to be a really reliable way of going from the pre-logged-in state of unimmersion in the world to the ideal post-logged-in state of immersion in the world (and my character).
My ultimate goal in RP is to know the character so well that I'm immersed in the complex landscape of their thoughts and feelings and reactions to the world without much, if any, conscious thought on my part. I become a mindless translating meat bag that just operates the keyboard, while my character acts through me. This state of synergy is hard for me to achieve, and takes a lot of time to set up, but I find it incredibly rewarding (and I've been told that my characters seem particularly convincing/human).
How think and feel interact with emote and say have a lot to do with the personality of the character, I think. SOME characters wear their heart on their sleeve. Some are aggressive assholes on the outside but insecure worriers on the inside. Some are still waters that run deep.
I made a post a long time ago on the SOI forums where I talked about feeling like expressing a character had three layers:
1) the external layer, that other people can see and hear
This involves what you're actually saying, of course, but also your character's facial expressions, body language, and the other tells that give away how your character reacts to any given thing that might be going on. Obviously this is what's covered by emote and say, and is the only information that's directly available to other players.
It's not about think and feel, but I feel it's worth noting here that I most enjoy playing with PCs whose faces/body language you can actually read. My characters are frequently trying to determine other people's motivations and truthfulness (and the emotional state of friends, or enemies in tense situations, etc) non-verbally. It's nice when there is something to read -- or if there's not, for that to be an IC decision or condition that can be responded to.
2) the middle layer, what your character is aware of thinking and feeling
This is involves situations (as has been mentioned) in which your character is thinking or feeling things they intentionally don't express, whether that's because it would be inappropriate to verbalize one's idle thoughts (because you don't tell the cannibandit, "Ew, your breath smells."), or because they're lying their ass off, or because they're musing about something unrelated to what's happening in the room, etc.
IMO these things are worth thinking about for one's own benefit as much as because the admins might see it/care -- even though I think a lot of people who want more admin attention/RPPs than they receive could probably solve their worries right away by paying more attention to this dimension. Sometimes I'm feeling shy and I will avoid thinking (or hesitate to think) if I want to avoid drawing attention to myself, but most of the time I think of it as something like logging my PC's internal narrative "for the record."
It's the admins' record in the sense that should anyone have a question as to why my PC did that, or what they made of that situation, or what the truth behind their outbursts was, they could look to his thinks to tell them that, but it's also MY record -- both literal, because I log everything, and figurative, because writing it down makes it more concrete than just considering it on an intuitive level.
If you just have a fleeting awareness that your PC was annoyed by something Joe did, but don't think through, in a concrete way, why, it's much harder to integrate that with everything else they fleetingly think or feel. But ideally these things are all related and coalesce into a consistent whole.
3) the deeply internal layer, that your PC isn't consciously aware of
We're all motivated by things we're not currently thinking about consciously at this moment, and these things can be really difficult to get across, but in my experience it pays to try -- in the interest of both me and any listeners-in understanding my PC better.
Your PC might be saying to Jane, "Lovely weather we're having," while thinking, "Jane is such a bitch with all her money and stuff," while the REASON your character resents Jane and her money is because they are deeply envious of Jane's privileged upbringing. Having constructed a whole rationalization in which having a privileged upbringing is something Bad that Jane is at fault for means it's hard to express the fact that deep, deep down, your PC would actually prefer to switch places with Jane.
In the same way that you can outwardly express discord between your PC's evident emotions and their words, in an emote, you can express discord between your PC's conscious thoughts and their underlying assumptions and feelings, using think and feel.
Similar to what Sabrelon noted, I've had experiences on other games where admins were able to understand my PCs sufficiently clearly to set up situations that were deeply triggering and motivating to them, to the unconscious core of their being. Anyone can suppose that your PC would be motivated by an opportunity to avoid death, or to gain wealth, or something like that, but it's incredibly rewarding to have your PC encounter a tailored stimulus that only they would respond to with such intensity.
I think some people get annoyed when PCs get (apparently preferential) attention from admins in this way, but my personal feeling is -- give them something to work with. If they don't understand your character, what can they do?
And in reference to the concern that the admins will foil one's nefarious plans if one thinks about them:
a) it's been my experience that whether the admins are your friends or your enemies has mostly to do with whether you decide they are one or the other
b) it's been my experience that most often the reverse is actually true -- if you give them a head's up they have a chance to actually understand what you're doing and possibly facilitate it, instead of being forced to assume that your actions are OOC
I don't know that there is a direct correlation between PC three-dimensionality and a player's use of think, but I think that if you're trying to make a fully three-dimensional PC without using think and feel, you're working with one hand tied behind your back.
ETA: I think the least often when my PC is interacting with someone they feel very comfortable with and are being very open with. The more freely they are expressing their thoughts and feelings externally, the less need there is to keep up two simultaneous modes of expression. Perhaps this simply means that my views on think and feel are very related to the fact that I rarely play PCs who are open and easy for strangers to read. But, I also kind of always feel that there is a lot stuff I just don't have the time to type and think through, and if I'm expressing so much externally, a lot of deep internal stuff just falls unfortunately by the wayside.
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:15 pm | |
Out of curiosity, has anyone used the think command to convey the competing forces of a psychoanalytic personality? In theory, it seems more practical than using it as a commentary from the characters point of view. I think, from an administrator's standpoint, it would be cool to see the mental processes that occur when it comes to deciding an action, and then for them to actually see that action as a result of the think would add more depth to the scenario.
From there, if you choose to get involved with that kind of roleplay, it adds another dimension to your character development. Deciding how strong your characters id, ego, and superego are in relation to each other will affect the root of their decision making.
| Bartleby wrote: |
| starsignal wrote: |
| Blondie wrote: |
| I feel that since regular characters can only see and interpret my character through my actions that all my efforts should go towards fleshing them out through that medium. I don't codedly -think- because in my head I've got a good idea already of how my character sees a situation. |
I think you've voiced really well my frustration with the commands. Right now I'm trying a tack in which, when faced with a situation IG and it occurs to me that my character might think something she wouldn't say out loud, I use the command. I feel like it sort of bridges the gap between "thinking is awkward" and "I should use ALL THE THINKS". |
I don't think continuously, but I'm not really sure I could RP in the style that I've settled into (which is to say, comfortably) if the think command didn't exist.
I actually do a lot of solo RP that has nothing to do with how other characters might view or interpret my PC, for my own benefit in fleshing out who my character is, what their motivations are, and how they develop as events shape them. In fact, when I first make a character, I prefer to spend a lot of time alone before I ever interact extensively with other characters, and if I don't have that opportunity it really gets in the way of becoming comfortable in the character's skin.
My ultimate goal in RP is to know the character so well that I'm immersed in the complex landscape of their thoughts and feelings and reactions to the world without much, if any, conscious thought on my part. I become a mindless translating meat bag that just operates the keyboard, while my character acts through me. This state of synergy is hard for me to achieve, and takes a lot of time to set up, but I find it incredibly rewarding (and I've been told that my characters seem particularly convincing/human).
How think and feel interact with emote and say have a lot to do with the personality of the character, I think. SOME characters wear their heart on their sleeve. Some are aggressive assholes on the outside but insecure worriers on the inside. Some are still waters that run deep.
I made a post a long time ago on the SOI forums where I talked about feeling like expressing a character had three layers:
1) the external layer, that other people can see and hear
This involves what you're actually saying, of course, but also your character's facial expressions, body language, and the other tells that give away how your character reacts to any given thing that might be going on. Obviously this is what's covered by emote and say, and is the only information that's directly available to other players.
It's not about think and feel, but I feel it's worth noting here that I most enjoy playing with PCs whose faces/body language you can actually read. My characters are frequently trying to determine other people's motivations and truthfulness (and the emotional state of friends, or enemies in tense situations, etc) non-verbally. It's nice when there is something to read -- or if there's not, for that to be an IC decision or condition that can be responded to.
2) the middle layer, what your character is aware of thinking and feeling
This is involves situations (as has been mentioned) in which your character is thinking or feeling things they intentionally don't express, whether that's because it would be inappropriate to verbalize one's idle thoughts (because you don't tell the cannibandit, "Ew, your breath smells."), or because they're lying their ass off, or because they're musing about something unrelated to what's happening in the room, etc.
IMO these things are worth thinking about for one's own benefit as much as because the admins might see it/care -- even though I think a lot of people who want more admin attention/RPPs than they receive could probably solve their worries right away by paying more attention to this dimension. Sometimes I'm feeling shy and I will avoid thinking (or hesitate to think) if I want to avoid drawing attention to myself, but most of the time I think of it as something like logging my PC's internal narrative "for the record."
It's the admins' record in the sense that should anyone have a question as to why my PC did that, or what they made of that situation, or what the truth behind their outbursts was, they could look to his thinks to tell them that, but it's also MY record -- both literal, because I log everything, and figurative, because writing it down makes it more concrete than just considering it on an intuitive level.
If you just have a fleeting awareness that your PC was annoyed by something Joe did, but don't think through, in a concrete way, why, it's much harder to integrate that with everything else they fleetingly think or feel. But ideally these things are all related and coalesce into a consistent whole.
3) the deeply internal layer, that your PC isn't consciously aware of
We're all motivated by things we're not currently thinking about consciously at this moment, and these things can be really difficult to get across, but in my experience it pays to try -- in the interest of both me and any listeners-in understanding my PC better.
Your PC might be saying to Jane, "Lovely weather we're having," while thinking, "Jane is such a bitch with all her money and stuff," while the REASON your character resents Jane and her money is because they are deeply envious of Jane's privileged upbringing. Having constructed a whole rationalization in which having a privileged upbringing is something Bad that Jane is at fault for means it's hard to express the fact that deep, deep down, your PC would actually prefer to switch places with Jane.
In the same way that you can outwardly express discord between your PC's evident emotions and their words, in an emote, you can express discord between your PC's conscious thoughts and their underlying assumptions and feelings, using think and feel.
Similar to what Sabrelon noted, I've had experiences on other games where admins were able to understand my PCs sufficiently clearly to set up situations that were deeply triggering and motivating to them, to the unconscious core of their being. Anyone can suppose that your PC would be motivated by an opportunity to avoid death, or to gain wealth, or something like that, but it's incredibly rewarding to have your PC encounter a tailored stimulus that only they would respond to with such intensity.
And in reference to the concern that the admins will foil one's nefarious plans if one thinks about them:
a) it's been my experience that whether the admins are your friends or your enemies has mostly to do with whether you decide they are one or the other
b) it's been my experience that most often the reverse is actually true -- if you give them a head's up they have a chance to actually understand what you're doing and possibly facilitate it, instead of being forced to assume that your actions are OOC
I don't know that there is a direct correlation between PC three-dimensionality and a player's use of think, but I think that if you're trying to make a fully three-dimensional PC without using think and feel, you're working with one hand tied behind your back. |
First off, well said Bartleby. I don't think I could tailor a response eloquent enough to match the sophistication you've put into describing the other side. That's mostly because I have work in twenty minutes but hey, I'm gonna do my best.
Let me clarify, so there aren't any vague assumptions made, I do have a concrete understanding of my character's psyche, personality, and the circumstances that have lead to him being that way. It's all written in this nice little word document that I have open separately while I'm playing. When I say I don't use the think command because I don't need it and it leaves me feeling awkward, that's the literal truth.
I don't disagree that think can add invaluble depth to your character (see text above the quote), I'm just saying there are different avenues to approach it and given that I have alternatives to adding those same dimensions to my character, what we're left with is that the admins aren't receiving these juicy inner bits about my character.
Maybe I'd stand to gain more if I did use the command. I agree that it should be universally encouraged, because the spirit of it is character development and integration. Every step towards that is a step further from OOC ambition and I'm definitely okay with that.
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:53 pm | |
| Blondie wrote: |
I don't disagree that think can add invaluble depth to your character (see text above the quote), I'm just saying there are different avenues to approach it and given that I have alternatives to adding those same dimensions to my character, what we're left with is that the admins aren't receiving these juicy inner bits about my character. |
More or less, yeah. It's completely possible, as you say, to do it through avenues not involving the game client itself. The only downside is that you're the only one who ever knows (some of) these things, and I've just had particularly good experiences in the past of putting that stuff out there for people to see, I guess.
Not just because then the admins understand my character well enough to give me the rare tickle -- but also because it makes clear what kind of game you're playing, the fact that you're acting because of well-established IC motivations, etc.
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:57 pm | |
| Bartleby wrote: |
| Blondie wrote: |
I don't disagree that think can add invaluble depth to your character (see text above the quote), I'm just saying there are different avenues to approach it and given that I have alternatives to adding those same dimensions to my character, what we're left with is that the admins aren't receiving these juicy inner bits about my character. |
More or less, yeah. It's completely possible, as you say, to do it through avenues not involving the game client itself. The only downside is that you're the only one who ever knows (some of) these things, and I've just had particularly good experiences in the past of putting that stuff out there for people to see, I guess.
Not just because then the admins understand my character well enough to give me the rare tickle -- but also because it makes clear what kind of game you're playing, the fact that you're acting because of well-established IC motivations, etc. |
To each their own. I would never discourage someone from using the think command, it's just not my cup of tea. I'm still fairly confident I can achieve that level of understanding through my own devices, though.
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:01 pm | |
| Blondie wrote: |
| To each their own. I would never discourage someone from using the think command, it's just not my cup of tea. |
I didn't mean to be targeting the whole post at you, sorry. 
I just tend to get my first idea from responding to a particular quote -- the rest kind of just flows from my train of thought.
Think is a very awkward thing at first, I think the awkwardness may diminish from using it. It's a tool and at first you don't really know what to do with it. After a while you develop your own style. I know someone who likes to have a distinct and unique way of thinking for each PC they play, which is more than I can manage, personally, unless I'm playing a character that obviously calls for a particularly unusual style of expressing thinks.
That said, it's ultimately about doing whatever feels most comfortable to you and lets you play in a way that's rewarding for you. It's hardly necessary, as you point out, to do any given thing if it's not something that increases your enjoyment of the game, and it's certainly not necessary for character development if you have another way of handling that that you like better.
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Holmes
Dictator in Absentia
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:17 pm | |
Just to note: I often times go through the game's logs, reading thinks that were sent while I was offline. So it's likely, at the very least, that your thinks are going to be at the very least skimmed over, even if there's not anyone online.
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:29 pm | |
Think is probably my favorite command. Having something of a penchant for playing shifty bastards I immediately appreciated the ability to lie. In games I had played previously I was frequently troubled by the awareness that there was very little way of expressing the fact that what you were saying was not the absolute truth, without seriously tipping your hand, which then rather defeated the point.
Of course I try to express what’s going on with my character in a way that other players can respond to. It’s only fair, and a lot more fun.
I never solo rped before playing RPIs, and tended to think playing alone in a room was strange and masturbatory. Then one day my antics got me booted from a party, but the whole experience was so immersive I had a revelation; my PC continued to exist, even when there was nobody else there. He had thoughts, feelings, a reaction to what happened, and I could play through them. I had something to do until I was invited back, other than simply idle or log off. I never looked back.
I was going to say something here about how I find that using think helps to develop my understanding of a character, and contributes to the portrayal of a complex, three dimensional person, but Bartleby more or less summed it up. This is not to say that Think is the only way to do it, only that in my experience the process of committing to an explicit description of my characters internal state furthers my personal sense of immersion. To each their own!
There is nothing that intrigues me more about a character than the sense that something has gone unsaid. I tend to believe that the ability to use think, and have there be an actual concrete something, allows this to happen more often. Of course, the players I suspect of thinking may not be doing it at all. I’m not even entirely consistent about it myself. (And I’m incredibly bad about non-contextual thinks) It may seem counterintuitive, but characters who are shy, reticent, secretive, mysterious or taciturn tend to particularly pique my interest, so long as they give me -something- to work with, and much leg-humping ensues.
That said, at the end of the day what I do *is* self-indulgent, by its very nature, even when I play with other people, and try to give them something interesting to respond to. I am the only person aware of the entirety of my character’s story. It soothes my ego to think that some admin, somewhere, might bother to tune in to my personal soap opera, but ultimately I need to be the one gratified by what I’m up to ingame.
I realize, however, that the thing I’m really bad about is Feel. As in, I never use it, and probably should.
Bad decisions are my favorite kind, and sometimes they are made because a character is pointedly *not* thinking about what they are doing.
While I tend to have a strong sense of the complicated emotional landscape of my character, and do what I can to express it outwardly, there are times when external presentation, internal rationalization, and raw emotion simply don’t line up.
Using feel would probably help in those situations, and make the reasons for my character’s behavior a little less opaque.
Ultimately, I do it because I find it rewarding, and also because I’m just vain enough to think that someone else might care.
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:54 pm | |
| Bartleby wrote: |
| Blondie wrote: |
| To each their own. I would never discourage someone from using the think command, it's just not my cup of tea. |
I didn't mean to be targeting the whole post at you, sorry.
I just tend to get my first idea from responding to a particular quote -- the rest kind of just flows from my train of thought.
Think is a very awkward thing at first, I think the awkwardness may diminish from using it. It's a tool and at first you don't really know what to do with it. After a while you develop your own style. I know someone who likes to have a distinct and unique way of thinking for each PC they play, which is more than I can manage, personally, unless I'm playing a character that obviously calls for a particularly unusual style of expressing thinks.
That said, it's ultimately about doing whatever feels most comfortable to you and lets you play in a way that's rewarding for you. It's hardly necessary, as you point out, to do any given thing if it's not something that increases your enjoyment of the game, and it's certainly not necessary for character development if you have another way of handling that that you like better. |
I took no offense to your post. Don't worry about it! We are on the same page about things which is all that matters.
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