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 Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:02 pm |  |
| Holmes wrote: |
| Matt wrote: |
| Unique dialects and accents don't make sense. Everyone's been living in Rust together for generations. |
Go to NYC. Every borough has a different accent, and there are slang variations, and you're far less likely to get shot for walking into the wrong borough than you are for walking into another family's turf in Rust. |
Though I think accents would be a bit much (is Rust akin to huge ass NYC? Maybe it is... I just thought it was more like... Boston-sized at best), little flavor words/slang/mild dialect differences I'm all for. It might help people feel more banded together in their group, more like a real Family. Slang can spring up in a small gang of 5 teenagers in the middle of the suburbs. Definitely should happen in Rust Families.
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Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:27 pm | |
| Holmes wrote: |
| Matt wrote: |
| Unique dialects and accents don't make sense. Everyone's been living in Rust together for generations. |
Go to NYC. Every borough has a different accent, and there are slang variations, and you're far less likely to get shot for walking into the wrong borough than you are for walking into another family's turf in Rust. |
Rust is in the thousands while NYC is in the millions. Rust is no where near the size of any of the boroughs.
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Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:57 pm | |
Just my two cents, but:
The question of dialects, imo (because I'm too lazy to do serious research atm, sorry  ), has some to do with the geographic size (or even the population size) of a place, but just as much to do with the degree of social stratification and how much various groups interact with each other.
There are a couple of factors that contribute to this.
1) Depending on how stratified a society is, people can live within a stone's throw of one another and still rarely or never interact socially. Consider the difference in dialect and speech patterns of plantation owners and slaves in the American south during the 17- and 1800s (who were prevented from interacting socially by the obvious constraints).
(For clarity: Yes, "education" plays into this, although not in the ways one would think since a significant amount of research has been done that suggests that no language or dialect is more "correct" or "logical" than any other; sure, having been exposed to more different words will result in a larger vocabulary, but grammatically speaking all dialects are equal. Our perception that some dialectical styles are more "proper" than others is purely a social construction. And yes, they started out speaking different languages, but so did the slaves among themselves, and the landowners among themselves.)
2) There is an element of choice with regard to dialect and even language, at least when there are a variety of such to choose from in one's local area. People choose to "sound like" the other people they identify with, and distinguish themselves stylistically from people they don't identify with. Growing up in a particular locale, among a particular group of people, in a particular stratum of society gives one a sense of identity that includes a particular way of expressing oneself. Anyone who is "torn between two worlds" (such as people coming from a poor area who end up at a University dominated by wealthier students from wealthier areas, for instance) knows that they have the ability to speak one way in one situation and another way in another situation, more or less at will (the desirability of doing so is certainly up for debate, but neither here nor there as far as this question goes).
3) Over time all languages (I suppose with the exception of situations in which institutionalized attempts are made to standardize them [like French, I think, at least in France]) tend to evolve and diversify. Given enough time, and enough distance, a single language will inevitably become two mutually unintelligible ones.
Obviously we're not in that particular situation with Rust, but how far would a single language get given the (I think rather significant) social stratification that might well have been going on for longer, even, than the prison has been in its liberated state, how far would that language have gotten?
It's a completely hypothetical question, and as such I think it's open to a fair amount of interpretation, myself. Personally, I think it's important to consider how separate you want the various groups (however you group them) in Rust to feel from one another. If you want it to feel like one homogeneous mass, then assume everyone, from the lowliest punk to the haughtiest Guard uses the same sorts of words and puts them together in the same sorts of ways. For myself I think it would be more interesting to be able to tell if someone was raised in Red territory or Niner territory just by the way they talk.
I realize that that idea relies very heavily on a social separation between the average Red and the average Niner, and it might not be viable for most of the vNPC nobodies who are more or less labor slaves and really only interact among themselves for the most part anyway. They might have their own altogether different dialect.
It depends whether you want there to be that much separation, or whether you envision a Rust in which people (not just PCs) are moving back and forth among the Families more or less at their own will, talking to anyone whenever they feel like it.
Also, a side note about the distinction between a language and a dialect: if you know what it is, you'd better inform the linguists, because they're still arguing about it.  And as for how subtle a difference in dialect might be, well... brits and americans don't have much difficulty understanding one another, even if brits titter behind their hands whenever an american mentions their "fanny pack".
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:55 am | |
I may regret saying this but.... I don't know if -realism- is really the central point of this debate.
After all... we're playing a game in which much time is spent battling giant lizards... on the Moon.
I think some allowances can be made.
What it comes down to for me is this: Would linguistic differentiation be of overall benefit to the game?
Now, my instinct, clearly, is yes. Perhaps people are taking issue with the term 'dialect', in which case I welcome anyone to suggest a better word which might clear up what I'm getting at... I don't really have one.
The fact of the matter is, large or small, Rust is populated by a collection of relatively insular groups who -want- to distinguish themselves from one another. Vocal mannerisms are a handy way of doing that. Now, I'm neither a linguist, nor an ethnographer, BUT it seems to me that the adoption of a given argot is as much about group identity as it is about anything else. I could be wrong, but frankly? I think it's really beside the point.
The function I see these not-actual-dialects serving is to create a sort of baseline from which to describe your character. Can you tell who they belong to? Who they'd be likely to see eye-to-eye with? Without some kind of a standard there is no way to express yourself as either typical or unusual for your group, and that seems, to me, a loss.
So, given that we're all pretty willing to accept vague insinuations about artificial gravity, and atmosphere generators I can only imagine that resistance on the grounds of -believability- is less the issue, than the sense that this proposed distinction would some how detract something from the game.
So, for those opposed, why in particular does this challenge your sense of immersion? Or is there something else you see as being problematic? I'd be very curious to know.
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:46 am | |
| Blue wrote: |
So, for those opposed, why in particular does this challenge your sense of immersion? Or is there something else you see as being problematic? I'd be very curious to know. |
I'm not particularly opposed, but I can guess what the major fear will be: everyone from 'x' group walking around talking like old-timey cowboys/posh british folk/etc. If that doesn't kill immersion....
So yeah, slang=good, exaggerated accents pulled from earth's past=bad.
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Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:28 am | |
So... the burning question: Are there STDs in Rust?
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Holmes
Dictator in Absentia
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Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:38 am | |
No. Just, no.
Also that is one of the worst puns I've ever heard, and I'm friends with Grandpa.
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grandpa
Registered
Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:45 am | |
That pun gets an STD-minus.
...get it, Derren?
Get it?!
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Tyrant
Registered
Benevolent Despot
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Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:36 am | |
| Poto wrote: |
| Who are the mask people? |
Bump. And in general. Any interesting information about the wastes, its mythos and any terrors that might lurk there. Mysterious masked beings and the great white lagato or whatever.
Oh, and while we have covered cybernetics I was wondering if there was any thought to plastic surgery and the like IG. If I wanted a character that is noticeably augmented but not in a cybernetic way how would that be handled? Are we talking back alley surgeons doing butcher work on prostitutes or the resident doctor to the affluent members of a family. Or all of the above?
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:18 pm | |
^Would like an answer to this also. And, I have my own question in the same category:
Does non-fuctioning prosthetics (like a plastic leg you can't move willingly or an artificial hip) count as cybernetics that RPP would be needed for?
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