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 Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:24 pm |  |
Something has to give. There needs to be some sort of change. Some of you probably don't even need to read this post to know what I'm talking about. Otherwise, read on.
Please bear in mind that I'm not picking on any one individual character in the following. I can't fairly judge a character (even were I somehow qualified to do so) without some pretty in-depth analysis.
Please don't roll out the "RP police" argument. Not this time. Please, just don't. There's simply an endemic issue, and it isn't one that can be handled on a case-by-case basis. If you come to the conclusion that I'm calling you out, then read the above again.
There is a troubling tendency for the female characters presently in-game to conform to some pretty unpleasant real life stereotypes. Not every PC does. Just a disturbingly high proportion. It may be no more than skin-deep, sure, but it's still an observable trend. And let's skip right over the counter-argument that male PCs also often conform to stereotypes, because those stereotypes don't usually carry with them all the negative connotations.
Is that sufficiently clear? If not, here it is in a blunter form: there is a troubling tendency for the female characters presently in-game to be set up as if they require the protection and nigh-constant attention of their male peers, or to be hyper-sexualised, which they then flaunt and use to their advantage, or to act younger than they are, thus garnering sympathy from many (whether intentionally or not, and regardless of it not really fitting the setting).
Once again, this is not an issue with any single PC. It wouldn't be an issue if it was just the case with a few. But it isn't. It's a trend running throughout the player-base, to the point that 'strong' female characters are an exception, rather than a rule, while 'strong' male characters abound.
It bothers me. It was remarked in the chat that a few players could step up to set a precedent. Yes, I could. Again. Except there were plenty of strong female PCs in Atonement, and the current 'issue' was a quiet and far more tolerable undercurrent, and it strikes me that the precedent should already be set.
I guess something constructive would help. Here are a few hopefully helpful bullet points:
- When making a female character, stop and consider if the same concept would work with a male character. If not, why not? If the answer to that is because of the overflow of real life stereotypes and views into the game, which render the female variety feasible, while the male variety might be ignored, at best, then stop, step back, and reconsider. Are you willing to try out the male version, regardless? If so, do so. If not, please don't add to the current issue. You'll make me sad.
- When making a male character, stop and consider if the same concept would work with a female character. If not, you're probably wrong. To be fair, I do understand the reluctance of a male player to play a female character, but if you're game for it, do try.
- When making a female character, stop and consider your reasons for playing said character. Is she genuinely interesting? What makes her interesting? As a sort of litmus test: is this a character you could comfortably chat to another player about playing (say, 30 days after death/retirement, on the chat-room thing)?
Again, it would be very, very easy for this post to be taken entirely the wrong way. Please don't. It's the best that I can do to address the matter, right now, and I've done my damnedest to be civil about it.
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:28 pm | |
I would honestly say in many cases this is a problem with the players, not just the characters.
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:34 pm | |
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:49 pm | |
I think this has a lot to do with how new the game is, even though the foundation of PRPI is recycled. A lot of players went in not knowing what to expect, some didn't even really read the documentation, so their first characters can be a bit shitty and they'll be prone to defaulting to some very bland stereotypes. Like it or not, the type of female character that you described is a cliché not because it's unusual and rarely seen in life; clichés are made of the opposite. When people don't have the inspiration for a more interesting concept, they'll default to clichés and stereotypes until they know enough about the subject material to come up with something of more substance. The same goes for male characters, but the male stereotypes are perhaps a little less unflattering.
Much the same was true in early Grungetown -- I can remember only a single strong, assertive female character from the first generation of characters, but they became increasingly common as players got more familiar with the setting and felt comfortable creating characters with more depth. Ask a random stranger in the street to name an iconic trope for female characters in fiction and many will probably mention the damsel in distress if given no context. Ask fans of Game of Thrones who the most iconic female character of the books/show is and I don't think very many would suggest Sansa. Given time, people will stop playing vacuous dress-up mannequins so much.
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:52 pm | |
Wherever there is roleplay, this thread and argument pops up, and it never really goes anywhere.
There's nothing wrong with openly sexual or feminine female characters any more than there's anything wrong with openly sexual, hulking musclehead masculine male characters, which are honestly even more commonplace but less complained about because of the taboo some modern societies place on female sexuality.
If you don't like their style and you don't find them interesting enough to explore beyond the surface, avoid them and enjoy your own roleplay while other people enjoy theirs. It's not your job to judge other people.
They may also not find the subjects that you do to be taboo, embarrassing or uncomfortable.
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:57 pm | |
| Lost wrote: |
Wherever there is roleplay, this thread and argument pops up, and it never really goes anywhere.
There's nothing wrong with openly sexual or feminine female characters any more than there's anything wrong with openly sexual, hulking musclehead masculine male characters, which are honestly even more commonplace but less complained about because of the taboo some modern societies place on female sexuality.
If you don't like their style and you don't find them interesting enough to explore beyond the surface, avoid them and enjoy your own roleplay while other people enjoy theirs. It's not your job to judge other people.
They may also not find the subjects that you do to be taboo or uncomfortable. |
I don't think you understood my post.
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:00 pm | |
| Lost wrote: |
Wherever there is roleplay, this thread and argument pops up, and it never really goes anywhere.
There's nothing wrong with openly sexual or feminine female characters any more than there's anything wrong with openly sexual, hulking musclehead masculine male characters, which are honestly even more commonplace but less complained about because of the taboo some modern societies place on female sexuality.
If you don't like their style and you don't find them interesting enough to explore beyond the surface, avoid them and enjoy your own roleplay while other people enjoy theirs. It's not your job to judge other people.
They may also not find the subjects that you do to be taboo or uncomfortable. |
You didn't understand Aken's post.
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:08 pm | |
| Aken wrote: |
| I don't think you understood my post. |
I don't think you understood your post.
You're talking about things like genuinely interesting and whether or not someone would be comfortable discussing their character. If these concepts weren't interesting enough to the people playing them and they'd be afraid to discuss them, they probably wouldn't be playing them - it's you who's judging them to be uninteresting or not conversation-worthy.
If you're not interested, don't play with them. Maybe they don't find your concepts interesting either.
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HAL
Administrator
Senior RPA
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:11 pm | |
Keep it civil.
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:27 pm | |
Be the change you want to see. There's nothing stopping you from making a badass warrior-woman that picks on girly girls and punches out chauvinistic pigs.
On a side note, I don't think I've read any documentation about women being equal or not equal in terms of average size/strength/whatever. The over abundance of girly girls isn't necessarily unthemeatic. If we assume it's the same as earth, where the average female is smaller and weaker, it's probably understandable that the majority of badass warriors would be male (or those aspiring to be badass warriors). Even more so if women knew they could get protection/sympathy in a harsh place like rust just by acting cute and fragile. And get comfy domestic roles where they aren't placed in danger.
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