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wirsindallein
Registered
(ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧
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 Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:50 am |  |
| Rome wrote: |
| This last run took over two hours to organize, and two hours and counting to do. I admire the people who have this much dedication to do this every day. Also, the amount of attention it takes to do lead something like this is another point of admiration. But as a daily thing, it's only possible for me as I am on break. |
All things considered, though? Once it got underway, I think it went a lot more smoothly than any other past runs have been.
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:54 am | |
I just want to say. If you are going out to mainly cull wild life. Tell us that up front. Some PC's aren't up for that. Some of us just want the scav.
If You only want to hit the 3-4 rooms of big item stuff, tell us first. Some people are only wanting to go to get the resources needed to trade/ make things, the big ticket items are a bonus.
I think if the scav leaders are open about there goals for the trip, there will be considerably less bitching, because we will know. And if we tag along, then it was by choice, and we have no right to bitch, because we knew the score first.
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:07 am | |
This is some really useful stuff, and I don't particularly mind people voicing their opinions about what "appropriate" scav RP is, honestly, as long as they're viewed as merely a variety of opinions. It can be VERY difficult to RP on a scav run, particularly if you're inexperienced and people are freely bitching at you about all of the newbish things you're doing amidst all the spam. It actually helps to know what people's expectations might be, even if one doesn't necessarily assume that everyone who voices an opinion is Right.
And to everyone who runs scavs or thinks they know the Right way to scav, please consider:
Not everyone has done this a thousand times. There might even be someone in your group who has NEVER done this before. Do you want them to run screaming from the game because they did something stupid and everyone jumped down their throat? I'm assuming not as I continue...
If there are OOC instructions that need to be given (such as: Do Not Under Any Circumstances Fall Out Of Follow With The Leader, or Call Out Your Own Name When You Need Assistance, or Do Not Shoot Into Melee), then please be kind and provide these instructions before leaving Rust. Please remember that there is actually no place to find these things out except for the generosity of a run leader, or the incredibly punitive experience of doing them wrong out in the wastes.
That said, it would be lovely if someone would compile a list of the Basics and post it somewhere that newbies could easily find. It would remove a lot of the burden of having to initiate people from the shoulders of the run leaders (who are already burdened with having to control a group of people, each of whom thinks their own way is best), and it would prevent the aforementioned unwanted ass reamings from discouraging new players. 
The scavving process is actually incredibly complicated and hard to follow at first, and not entirely intuitive. This is something that's woefully easy to forget after you've gotten the hang of it, which means that experienced players are often not especially good at explaining the process clearly and completely to people who have no idea how it works. And because screwing up can be so deadly, both to you and to the other members of your group, the penalty for ignorance has been, in my experience, quite unnecessarily excruciating.
It would be really nice if a gentler system of initiation existed that took more into account the fact that new players (and people who have played only non-coms in the past) will need a lot of instruction before they will be able to function as reliable and prepared members of the team. This is hard to manage ICly sometimes, as there isn't always someone around to teach you the basics outside of just being chucked into the fire with your pants down, so I think managing it OOCly might be a much better solution.
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| I would prefer not to. | |
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:08 am | |
I know I'm going to sound like a dick but I feel like when I've lead scavs and a few other people have lead scavs..they have been completed quickly in comparison to these 2-4 hour marathons. In fact they turn into a selling point as people want to join your scavs because they know it wont take as long.
I think as long as nothing is going on around you and your group is just traveling from point A to B then 30 seconds per room before moving is a good pace to be at. If you are carrying heavy weight obviously you have to crank that speed way back. I've noticed some scavs move at a one room per 2-5 minutes and that really adds up.
Of course waiting for every single piece of scav or corpse to get picked up after you've already told people to pick up is just going to slow you down. Fuck them, if its good scav pick it up, you deserve it as the leader.
On another subject, please check to make sure non-hostile pc's are not attacking your group before you attack them. It feels like as soon as a hidden npc is exposed some brilliant person in the group auto-types kill spider. Not only does this give your group wounds it didn't need it can add twenty minutes to the trip if medics have to do work afterwards.
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:23 am | |
| Flincher14 wrote: |
| I know I'm going to sound like a dick but I feel like when I've lead scavs and a few other people have lead scavs..they have been completed quickly in comparison to these 2-4 hour marathons. In fact they turn into a selling point as people want to join your scavs because they know it wont take as long. |
The speed thing is pretty complicated, imo.
I completely agree that the grueling 5 hour marathons can really put one off of going on a run, particularly if one only has 5 hours to play at a time. Some people don't even have that long.
But.
Racing around at top speed with no emotes and very little RP through 25 rooms in an hour is about the most unimmersive thing in the game, imo.
And.
Doing it that way only works if everybody in the group knows what's up, and agrees to it. That's a pretty big if, and doesn't leave a lot room for error or disagreement.
Personally I'm equally put off by this option as I am by the 5 hour long runs, just for different reasons. Imo, it's a sort of unfortunate quirk of the balancing of the system that something so completely necessary (and at times, very fun and immersive) takes so incredibly long to complete.
And people's willingness to speed through it is perhaps even part of the problem. Perhaps one of the reasons they can't make it simpler or shorter is because then it would be too easy to rack up tons of lewt from tearing across the countryside at warp speed. The system will always be limited, at least in part, by how quickly it can physically be accomplished, meaning that everyone unwilling to do it that quickly will always be at a disadvantage.
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| I would prefer not to. | |
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wilde
Administrator
Over Emote-tional
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:49 am | |
We're actually in the midst of a discussion about this at the moment.
I've always hated the grindy, spammy, low RP way scavenging works. It's so vital and such a huge part of the whole culture of the game, I think it's a real shame that it just provides so few opportunities for decent RP.
Panic not, I'm not trying to get rid of scavenging or make it harder to get stuff. I'd just like it to be better, less labour intensive and generally more enjoyable.
There seriously has to be more to life than 'w, forage, get scrap, repeat'.
Please keep your thoughts coming!
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:28 am | |
I personally love the scavenge 'system' I hate the large groups at snail speeds. Making it easier to scav and therefore allow smaller groups is not the solution.
Making it harder for larger groups that take too many people could be a solution. Two suggestions I have are
1. Large creature that is only drawn to 15+ groups that can kick the living crap out of even that many pc's. Meaning you don't want your group too small that it can't fight regular wildlife but you don't want it so big that this large creature comes and starts dealing grevious-horrific damage to your group. A work around to this would be having a large group split into two and just one follows the other, defeating the purpose but it would encourage less spam per room.
2. Drastically scaling back the chances of finding good loot according to how many pc's have began foraging in the area. The problem is the fastest typers will get the good loot and everyone else will end up with shit. On top of that you might have people trying to race ahead just for the chance to be the first to forage. You could possibly scale scavenging rewards based on the amount of people in your group, ex. Y# pc's in room reduces scav chance/level by X percent. (The exact details of how this works would need to be obscure or you'd have people going into a scav room one or two at a time making the whole thing way longer.)
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:57 pm | |
| Mannfreid wrote: |
I just want to say. If you are going out to mainly cull wild life. Tell us that up front. Some PC's aren't up for that. Some of us just want the scav.
If You only want to hit the 3-4 rooms of big item stuff, tell us first. Some people are only wanting to go to get the resources needed to trade/ make things, the big ticket items are a bonus.
I think if the scav leaders are open about there goals for the trip, there will be considerably less bitching, because we will know. And if we tag along, then it was by choice, and we have no right to bitch, because we knew the score first. |
QFT. Don't form a "scav group". And then hit 1 or 0 scav rooms and focus on killing stuff. It's annoying as shit, seriously. Especially paired with the fact that you just spent 5 hours doing it.
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grandpa
Registered
Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:15 pm | |
| Mannfreid wrote: |
I just want to say. If you are going out to mainly cull wild life. Tell us that up front. Some PC's aren't up for that. Some of us just want the scav.
If You only want to hit the 3-4 rooms of big item stuff, tell us first. Some people are only wanting to go to get the resources needed to trade/ make things, the big ticket items are a bonus.
I think if the scav leaders are open about there goals for the trip, there will be considerably less bitching, because we will know. And if we tag along, then it was by choice, and we have no right to bitch, because we knew the score first. |
| tempest wrote: |
| QFT. Don't form a "scav group". And then hit 1 or 0 scav rooms and focus on killing stuff. It's annoying as shit, seriously. Especially paired with the fact that you just spent 5 hours doing it. |
Again, listening helps. The main scavenge that got people riled up, the goals were stated 3-4 times before we left and 2-3 times when we arrived.
ETA: Not that I've ever seen "0-1" scav rooms hit on a run, short of the group getting nearly annihilated, so your mileage may vary.
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| It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. | |
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Roadhawk
Registered
We lurk inside your brain, we hide inside your mind.
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:18 pm | |
Perhaps a group craft that has a timer depending on how many people are in the group? Everybody gets a random bit of scrap and the same skill rise as the patrol leader doing the craft?
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