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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie
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 Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:25 pm |  |
Bartleby: I don't think I've been on a scavenge where, "Don't shoot, call our your name, and don't leave the group" haven't been said right at the gates of Rust. Everything else you've said is very relevant, and I'll try a little harder for that. Usually as a group-leader I'm less focused on the individual newbies and more focused on the group as a whole. There used to be a lot more resources over on 'tonement's website, and we haven't gotten around to recreating those.
Flincher: Like Bartleby said, it's a stylistic decision. We can spamrushfling ourselves through the wild(e)s, or get a chance to play it out. I don't think that code is RP always.
RE: Coded let's fix scav discussions, I dunno how helpful that is for the situation-at-hand. The game's semi-understaffed, and there's other things being worked on--and either way what still needs discussed is the fact that there's clearly a lot of angst/confusion as to how it works sometimes.
ETA: And I think people are confused about point #1, re: culling wildlife. We're not wandering out with a giant piece lagato bait. Sometimes it takes that long to get from point a. to point b. because we hit four lagatos and two shredder packs on the way there, and then we hit three lagato at once and two more on the way back. It's an unavoidable part of the -current- game world. It may be alleviated later, but not for now.
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:16 pm | |
Just going to put in my two cents here. Sorry in advance for the wall of text.
Large group scavs don't encourage paying attention to, at the very least on our way to wherever we are expecting trouble. (Lately that tends to be at scav destinations, i.e., the hospital etc.) Unless you're trying to jump on the lagato/beetle/shredder right off, there's no reason for you to be paying strict attention to the game.
Part of this is because there is nothing for the more non-com types to do. As throwing has been banned ICly (admittedly not a particularly effective way of bringing a creature down) the bulk of the group is forced to stand on the sidelines while four people cut up the mob. You shouldn't scav while they're fighting, or medic. Large group scav run RP is not rewarding and tends to be spammy as hell. Depending on your settings, it's also easily missed. Keeping half an eye out on your mud client is enough to just make sure you aren't getting jumped, and if you're a total noncom, you don't even need to do that since you're probably guarded.
Stuff, imo, that would help:
Reducing spam:
* Set melee helps a little bit, but it would be awesome of that setting could be adjusted so that it does not gag the first hit initiated by anyone. This would help for paying attention to who struck first (and getting in on the fight) while making it easier to follow subsequent dialogue/emoting while having this setting on. Don't know how hard this would be to do.
* Reducing rummaging spam. One way to deal with it might be that rather than having a room echo, change the PC's standard pmote to 'is scavenging here' or something. The less spam, the easier it is to read and react to emotes, relevant or not. I think erasing echoes might not be that hard? I don't know though.
* As far as I know, hmote, like talk, automatically passes checks by your fellow group members. I think some kind of targeted emote that works on the level of whisper would be nice to have. If I'm mistaken about this, my bad. This is probably pretty hard to do. It would be nice though.
About admin attention on a run:
* Messing with a few people in the group's heads used to be something that Jaunt(?) used to do. Weird noises or a flash of something out of the corner of your eye are definitely doable here, even without a psychic bug queen screwing with your head. That kept people on their toes and definitely incentivized paying attention. If you were going to the bug ship, you did not want to be semi/totally afk. That is not the case currently, where the group's fighters have everything handled and you can easily ignore the first half of the run as well as a good portion of the second.
* Waiting for PCs to do what needs to be done isn't always going to go the admin's way. A little bit of railroading and/or flexibility isn't terrible as long as it isn't overdone. If a PC group persists in searching one side of a building when all the admin echoes are saying something is on the other side, dropping something on that side that incentivizes turning around or gives the group something to chew on while they search is a good thing. If a PC group sees a warning and wants to avoid it, and is spending a good half an hour deciding what to do, forcing them into making that decision to stay or go is also a good thing. It adds urgency to the situation. Thirty minutes of 'So what are we doing?' isn't terribly fun for anyone, at least no one I know.
Non-com Jobs:
* I honestly have no idea what would help here. But giving the people who aren't the four PCs (+ rescuers) on the mob in the room something to do during the fight might help. Coded stuff doesn't tend to be that interesting, though, aside from the fact that there is no coder, so this is probably best addressed by admin echoes and flavor stuff from the start.
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grandpa
Registered
Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:21 pm | |
Imamy: Just because you can doesn't mean it makes you a good player. "I want to see more roleplay/echoes on the run." Well? Be something admins and players both want to play with.
RE: "Thirty minutes of what are we doing," just because an admin echoes at us doesn't mean our PCs need to run pell-mell. Don't confuse IC and OOC here. Planning and playing these situations out can be fun. Just because an admin echoes doesn't mean every PC's going to rush in pell-mell. You're always allowed to do that ICly on your own, though!
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:26 pm | |
?
I'm saying reducing spam makes it easier to read emotes and having less spammy options available might make certain players use them. I'm not criticizing anyone's RP style here, god knows I'm no RP master myself.
Admin echoes are great for helping keep people's attention on the game, which is only good for the game. Seeing more stuff that isn't just in one section of the scav run is probably beneficial.
If you enjoy planning, that's great! But that thirty real minutes of a few PCs planning amongst themselves is thirty minutes of people playing LoL in some other window or something.
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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:00 pm | |
Gonna explain some, based on thinking that you're confused/uncertain as to what I was saying.
| imany wrote: |
| If you enjoy planning, that's great! But that thirty real minutes of a few PCs planning amongst themselves is thirty minutes of people playing LoL in some other window or something. |
Then find someone else in the group, attach to them, and involve yourself! Think/feel! Emote, even if you're quiet. The admins were up there too, obviously watching, and they'd -love- to be involved/interacted with. It's foreplay. It's not all run up and shove your gun into the enemy so it goes off--sometimes there's a little planning and seduction involved.
| imany wrote: |
you can easily ignore the first half of the run as well as a good portion of the second.
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I assume you're speaking by way of experience--I'm saying -don't- do this. Because if you do....
| imany wrote: |
| Admin echoes are great for helping keep people's attention on the game, which is only good for the game. Seeing more stuff that isn't just in one section of the scav run is probably beneficial. |
This'll never happen. This won't happen unless people stop idling, start thinking/feeling, and emoting in general. That's what I'm saying Do scenesetting emotes yourself. emote The moon is really creepy and the cold wind blows, blah blah blah blah blah. @ reacts to it.
Scavs are bland, long, and boring? I can't fix #2. I try to fix #1/#3. But ANYONE can do that themselves.
ETA:
To clarify what I'm saying isn't a stylistic decision--it's either you're emoting or you aren't. Most people aren't. And admins just aren't going to come spice up a scene that is dead on arrival. They'll spruce up/help to improve players/groups that will work with them. Give and take.
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| It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. | |
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:35 pm | |
I do pay attention on runs, for the most part, if only to try to get in on the fights. And personally, I do use think/feel. (Though I could definitely use it more, as always. I prefer think/feel over emoting proper in a big group since it just feels spammy and attention-whorish without having a reason to emote. And my character is largely reactionary, which is likely the same for a lot of PCs in the game.)
That doesn't change that admin driven plots tend to be in a relatively short window when the PC group is in the right place, and that given that this is the way it's been run anyway, it's definitely encouraging complacency. Pushing the PC group with small things is something that admin /can/ do, that helps make it fun. They don't have to; again, this is just a suggestion and getting onto be more like a dollar's worth of thoughts.
In case it is not clear, I'm not asking for personal attention here; I'm totally 100% fine with being support. But there's a certain amount of storytelling best done from the side of administration, and something that feeds reactionary emoting as to the creepiness of the desolate moon is likely to be taken more seriously than someone doing it essentially at random.
If we're going to be running into admin attention at a scav run destination anyway, making the trip there and back interesting would be good.
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:36 pm | |
| Quote: |
| This'll never happen. This won't happen unless people stop idling, start thinking/feeling, and emoting in general. That's what I'm saying Do scenesetting emotes yourself. emote The moon is really creepy and the cold wind blows, blah blah blah blah blah. @ reacts to it. |
I find it significantly easier to react than try to 'force' some RP on a boring trip. I do try to think/feel things to some degree, but for me it ends up as "The moon is really creepy and my character feels this way" and then...nothing. OOCly I'm just thinking what next. Usually there is nothing relevant or interesting to think/feel about for my character and my character hasn't encountered something new to self-rp about.
So I just wait, and wait, sifting through says/emotes/things that my character might pay attention to/care about and just coming up with nothing or very little for large stretches of time. Repeatedly thinking/feeling the same thing seems like bad RP to me, but I dunno. Plus defining parts of my character are...well, I can't speak on this on public forums.
ALL of this said, I really don't know of an elegant solution that doesn't involve admins staying in overdrive mode for the entire length of the trip.
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starsignal
Registered
just a page in someone's book
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:42 pm | |
I share Chrjo12's feelings completely. For those of us who are noncom/support and play reactive characters, there isn't a whole lot of fodder even for thinking/feeling -- most of the time I feel like I'm being totally inane with think/feel, and with a character who is completely capable of elevated thinking -- and creating it ourselves can only go so far. Plus, with other people paying attention to over things and the incredible spamminess of it all, even if we are emoting being creeped out by the moon or whatever, I think the chances are fairly slim that there's going to be much reaction to it from others.
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:26 pm | |
also keep in mind that these people have been born on the moon, and grown up in this hostile environment. Looking out at the landscape probably doesn't freak them out to a huge amount.
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grandpa
Registered
Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:09 pm | |
I think everyone took one example I put and thought it was the only thing they could ever emote. Scenesetting is about way more than that D=.
It's not about the creepiness every time--it's reminders and general hints at the -world- you're existing in. Immerse yourself -intensely-.
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