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 Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:38 am |  |
Asked to take to forum, here it is. Banning throwing on a scavenging or clearing trip is unnecessary and frustrating. There are four melee spots and usually in excess of fifteen people. The people not in on the melee can only guard a direction and stand there while the fight carries on. Binding happens every once in a while, people race to rescue someone so they can twink up their melee skills, but I'd say most people just get to stand there.
This said, I only support throwing within reason. Throwing anything and everything is obviously not acceptable. Throwing javelins? Perfectly fine in my opinion. Does everyone have javelins? No. Are javelins made specifically for throwing? Yes. When are javelins going to be used otherwise? Rats. Yay.
You argue twinking? Everything on a scavenging trip is twinking. Hiding, melee races, preemptive rescues, and races to legitimate rescues. Suddenly twinking a non-major skill with a low damage, long balance weapon is not okay? Aim is very helpful for people that didn't start with a gun skill too.
You argue realism? Anyone with decent aim is going to hit a giant goddamn lizard, especially if only five people are circling the thing (or maybe not, and just standing still). Especially with weapons designed to help throwing. It's not like javelins are being arced across the whole group. People throwing are probably really close, actually. You're not guaranteed to hit an ally. At all.
Reluctantly, I do recognize this post isn't going to change anything. The powers that be have decided no throwing, IC and OOC, and people don't usually change their minds. Still, articulating my argument makes me feel a little better, so here this is.
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| You are like a delightful random cruelty generator, Master, poisoning all you touch with your presence. You are a testament to all organic meat bags everywhere. | |
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Holmes
Dictator in Absentia
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:47 am | |
Throwing does zero damage 99% of the time (even with maxed stats and skills, and a gquality javelin) and negligible damage 1% of the time, and throwing into a melee is silly, and a little immersion-breaking.
That's my official opinion, take it as you will.
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wirsindallein
Registered
(ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:01 am | |
A quick breakdown of how spammy throwing is, compared to literally every other combat message.
The average combat message:
| Code: |
You clumsily parry a pint-sized, black-and-red-scaled lizard's
rudimentary bite with your knife.
<****** / ^^^^^^ / ||||| / a pint-sized, black-and-red-scaled lizard:******>\ |
2 lines.
Drawing a Weapon
| Code: |
A limber, stylishly kempt male draws a crossguard-hilted sword with a straight blade from a thick,
ash grey sheath.
<** / ^^^^^^ / |||||| / aiming>
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2-3 lines.
Binding
| Code: |
A bald, broad-shouldered man slowly begins administering aid to his wounds,
attempting to stem the bleeding.
<** / ^^^^^^ / |||||| / aiming>
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2 lines
Engaging
| Code: |
A wispy-framed, glossy-spined young mutant engages a large, tentacled,
amorphous blob in combat.
<** / ^^^^^ / ||||||>
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2 lines
Rescuing
| Code: |
A hulking, bushy-bearded man draws a large, tentacled, amorphous blob's attention.
<** / ^^^^^ / |||||| / aiming> |
1 line
Calling for Rescue/Binding/etc.
| Code: |
A wispy-framed, glossy-spined young mutant exclaims, with a quiet voice,
the accent Eastside Grungetown in origin,
"Rescue henbee!"
<* / ^^^^^ / ||||| >
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1-3 lines, depending on voice string and means of calling. (A shout or emote takes less space, for instance)
Throwing
| Code: |
A redacted sdesced person with identifiable things hurls a simple serrated
spear forcefully at a over-sized, horn-faced, moon-gray lizard.
It misses completely.
<****** / ^^^^^ / ||||| >
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4 lines
Sitting/Standing takes 1 line unless emoted. I shouldn't need to share that.
So what does this mean, exactly? The majority of messages you're going to see take about 2 lines or so on average. Something being thrown takes up twice that.
You can draw what conclusions you want from this. Mine is that, given how ineffective throwing is (as stated by Holmes), it's a waste of everybody's time at worst and a nuisance at best.
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:02 am | |
Only reason we killed Sally Cole in Atonement was because of throwing damage. There was what, 4 landed melee hits that entire fight? Throwing can do damage. Throwing can be accurate enough to not hit allies, especially against a big target (20 foot lizard, for instance). There's really nothing so OOC about it, except that it bypasses the somewhat silly code restriction of only 4 things can fight something at one time- 4 people can fight 1 rat, or 4 people can fight 1 lizard. You can dislike it for the spam, you can dislike it because it bypasses code, but saying that it doesn't make sense is too much of a blanket statement- sometimes it makes plenty of sense.
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:13 am | |
I'm only arguing for javelins at this point, as of this moment there are maybe three or four in the game. That's not a lot of spam to deal with, and that's if all the javelins are even present on one trip.
I agree with Kog. It's really not immersion breaking and it does do at least some damage.
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Holmes
Dictator in Absentia
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:18 am | |
| kog wrote: |
| Only reason we killed Sally Cole in Atonement was because of throwing damage. There was what, 4 landed melee hits that entire fight? Throwing can do damage. Throwing can be accurate enough to not hit allies, especially against a big target (20 foot lizard, for instance). There's really nothing so OOC about it, except that it bypasses the somewhat silly code restriction of only 4 things can fight something at one time- 4 people can fight 1 rat, or 4 people can fight 1 lizard. You can dislike it for the spam, you can dislike it because it bypasses code, but saying that it doesn't make sense is too much of a blanket statement- sometimes it makes plenty of sense. |
I think you're wrong about how effective throwing was in that fight, or that mob was improperly set.
I'm telling you right now, that throwing does negligible amounts of damage, on the rare occasion that it even does damage, even when you have literally max skills and stats.
Also, uh, I don't know where you're getting the twenty feet figure from. The largest lagato are twelve feet long, and managing to hit a moving target, whilst four people crowd around it swinging swords is an impressive feat that is almost realistically impossible to do with a zero percent chance of hitting a person.
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:33 am | |
He's not wrong. Ask anyone that was in that fight. Obviously the damage is not negligible if it killed the second strongest mob in all of atonement. I'm putting hydra first for the record.
Incredibly clearly, we have different viewpoints of how your typical group vs lagato fight goes down and how someone would handle a javelin in a fight.
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:34 am | |
CLEARLY, YOU NEVER FOUGHT ATLAS
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grandpa
Registered
Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:37 am | |
Wirs: you forgot to include the extra line of picking it up, too.
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:39 am | |
I saw a sword severe someone in the eye, bleeder.
I saw Sally Cole get dropped by throws alone.
I've given out minors throwing random crap at people, and even a small x30000 will kill someone eventually.
I've always been a proponent that you listen to mechanics over listening to RP - I can RP being able to fly, but if I can't mechanically do it, it doesn't make sense. There's a hard cap on how many can fit into a fight at once, and there's no penalty whatsoever for throwing into a melee. Currently at least, throwing makes at least some degree of sense. However, I also don't think it's a big enough deal to merit arguing for/against. It was pretty silly to crack down on it IG because it's 100% safe to do and actually speeds up fights in some small way, plus it gives people something to pay attention to/do if they aren't those lucky/fast-typing 4 who get to play. I feel more or less the same way about sparring- but such is life.
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