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WorkerDrone
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Duke Attitude
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 Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:45 am |  |
So I've made this thread in lieu of another friend of mine posting it instead, because I came up with the idea and put the sentiments they had into words, and thought I could post a bit of a guide, or at least dignify the issue with something that should be very obvious. I won't ask for a sticky, though if I get one, I'd appreciate it verily so this doesn't ever come up again.
Now, the issue in question, using no names and no specific details, is of one person coming into the game and making use of very common knowledge events in their background, and using it as character development to further the ties they have with the other people in their clan. Things like this can be very important PC deaths, dealings between clans or battles and famines that took place IG that might have resulted in harm.
Now, the person used the death of a prominent leader to invoke sadness in their character's life and use it for interactions with others in their clan, and someone approached them or when they approached them issued the argument, as such, that they weren't "there" for those ingame events, so couldn't possibly understand or have the ability to feel sad about them, in a rather flippant manner.
A lot of scenarios like this could be viewed as personal peeve, but I assure you it's a more serious issue.
Now, I've sort of demonstrated what the above is--it's callous disregard for common sense and somewhat dickish behavior in a player sort of giving a nod to another player kind of sense. When someone wants to interact with you, throwing you a bone and mentioning something you know your character is all over--use that as a basis for constructive (or deconstructive) roleplay, don't disregard them because their player wasn't either logged in, or a PC at the time. And here's why.
OBJECT PERMANENCE:
Babies, at some point in their natural development, learn that things ("objects", ect.) and people continue to exist, even when they don't see them or actively interact with them.
I'm using a form of this psychological term to describe the phenomenon.
A person disregarding someone as "not existing" before the point that they are introduced into the game is not setting appropriate, is not game appropriate, and is not player appropriate. So why?
Got one term for you to digest.
Virtual-Non-Player-Characters.
And here's the wham delivery for you, get this.
All player characters aren't akin to being like vNPCs or NPCs*. Some are worse off than some NPCS (Like Bjork) but most are much better off than vNPCs. HOWEVER. This only starts to be established at their "peak", which is generally whenever the player behind them starts actually playing them.
But when the player isn't playing them, or hasn't created them yet, guess what? They still exist. They were -around- for things that most people who it would make sense to be around for, were around for. Why?
Because all Player Characters were at some point in their life cycle a Virtual Non Player Character, and actually, in a veeery limited fashion, continue to be!
So why is disregarding or dismissing someone with something that makes literally no sense if a player's background is, "Longstanding member of this organization", or "common resident of this area" or "regular patron at this bar", when an event happens in that place, and the idea that person was around for that event, poor form?
I think -most- people understand this, but I want to -illustrate- why it's poor form.
Because it totally closes off avenues of roleplay for people if you act flippant and dismissive on a very metagaming level, and cut people out of shit based on their playtime or read into a background you don't even KNOW. If someone says they were around for it--you gotta assume that they were beneath your character's notice at the time, or you're being kind of a butt.
So where's the guide? I guess I can start quick and easy.
1: Demonstrate. Include things that make sense, that have happened in the general area of your background, in your roleplay, and try to connect with others through common Ingame history, to deepen the game world by keeping those stories alive, no matter the PC.
2: Use common sense. If something super secret happened, that few people know about, even in a individual clan, then don't come into the game trying to get back into that secret circle again. I don't think I need to tell anyone this but that's just so it was mentioned.
3: Validate. When someone comes to you with something your character was there for, at least try to connect with that player in some way, whether volatile, or comradely, or however your PC would react. Don't dismiss someone without reason in these regards.
4: Discourage. If you see someone do this, don't actively avoid this person. Try to find what's up with them, and if they continue to demonstrate qualities they should be admonished for, send them a mudmail.
Thanks for reading.
*This means that I'm mentioning a callback from another discussion, that players are generally in the top 99% of the gameworld's population, but not the top 1%. Added footnote for clarification.
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:56 am | |
creating a PC is taking an NPC and ruining their lives
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:43 am | |
| WorkerDrone wrote: |
| Now, the issue in question, using no names and no specific details, is of one person coming into the game and making use of very common knowledge events in their background, and using it as character development to further the ties they have with the other people in their clan. |
I wish more people would do this.
It helps if you make an IC board post or drop some hmails [ETA: SORRY, MUDMAILS -- there are no hobbits in Rust >.> <.<], though, to let people whose backgrounds overlap with that of a new PC know what's going on, and to let you potentially coordinate with them about whether or not they knew each other, any pre-existing relationship between them, etc.
| WorkerDrone wrote: |
| Now, the person used the death of a prominent leader to invoke sadness in their character's life and use it for interactions with others in their clan, and someone approached them or when they approached them issued the argument, as such, that they weren't "there" for those ingame events, so couldn't possibly understand or have the ability to feel sad about them, in a rather flippant manner. |
This has happened to me also. In some instances because I just did not happen to be able to be logged in at the time (where was my character? lying comatose in bed, drooling at the ceiling?), but in some cases because the player of the PC in question was simply unaware of (and I daresay uninterested in) the background of my PC.
| WorkerDrone wrote: |
But when the player isn't playing them, or hasn't created them yet, guess what? They still exist. They were -around- for things that most people who it would make sense to be around for, were around for. Why?
Because all Player Characters were at some point in their life cycle a Virtual Non Player Character, and actually, in a veeery limited fashion, continue to be! |
Yes. So much yes.
| WorkerDrone wrote: |
| Because it totally closes off avenues of roleplay for people if you act flippant and dismissive on a very metagaming level, and cut people out of shit based on their playtime or read into a background you don't even KNOW. If someone says they were around for it--you gotta assume that they were beneath your character's notice at the time, or you're being kind of a butt. |
Yep.
Personally, I'm cynical. I try not to be, but I think that people who tend to shoot others down in an unequivocal fashion about things like this are just using an OOC reality (you weren't there as a player) to assert IC dominance, which is completely out of bounds since OOC and IC don't mix.
However, trying to give people the benefit of the doubt and just assume that they don't know any better than to bring OOC into IC, I would like to share something that may be helpful.
Playing an RPI is very much like performing in improvisational theater, which wikipedia defines as follows:
Improvisational Theater, sometimes called just improv, is a form of theater where most or all of what is performed is created at the moment it is performed. In its purest form, the dialogue, the action, the story and the characters are created collaboratively by the players as the improvisation unfolds.
The overlap is obvious, I think. That's exactly what we're doing when we RP with other players through our PCs.
There are generally agreed upon "rules of improv" which are not designed to restrain improv players from having an unfair advantage over one another, as so many rules of RPIs tend to be structured, but around trying to improve the final product. That is, make the story better. And I think these rules would be hugely useful for people to take into account when RPing with one another.
There are a lot of different ideas about which rules go first, and how to word them and things, none of which matters all that much for our purposes -- and some relate to establishing things that are already established by the game. I'll just post some particularly relevant ones here as food for thought [these are not my work, btw]:
1) Say Yes-and!
For a story to be built, whether it is short form or long form, the players have to agree to the basic situation and set-up. The who, what, and where have to be developed for a scene to work.
2) After the `and` add new information.
An improvised scene can't move forward or advance unless we add new information. That is why new information is added after the Yes of Yes-and!
3) Don't Block.
The opposite of saying yes-and is blocking or denial.
Blocking -
Not Accepting other players' offers, and actually destroying these offers.
4) Avoid Questions.
A form of blocking (in its more subtle form) is asking questions. Questions force our partners to fill in the information or do the work. It is a way of avoiding committing to a choice or a detail. It is playing it safe. However, on more advanced levels, questions can be used to add information or tell your partner the direction to go in.
Bartleby says: Be sensitive, use your intuition. If someone isn't ready for a question, don't ask it -- you're just blocking their contribution. On the other hand, if they've shown a strong ability to add further information on the fly, or you suspect they have it already worked out -- do ask. Acknowledge the truth of their assertion by requesting more details.
9) For serious and emotional scenes, focus on characters and relationships.
A long form improv set should contain a variety of scenes. Some scenes will be emotional, some will be tense, and some should be funny. The easiest way to make a scene serious is by focusing on the relationship of those on the stage (their characters).
Bartleby says: Everybody wants to tell their own PC's dramatic, compelling story, but when you're involved in a scene with others, what's important right then is the relationship between your PC and theirs. How does your PC's dramatic, compelling story relate to their interactions with the other PC? To their reactions to what the other PC is saying, feeling, doing? The players of other PCs in the gameworld are not your audience, they are your partners in creating a story. Treat them accordingly.
Honestly, I think it's mostly a matter of whether one's RP is self-centered (centered on one's own PC and one's OOC aspirations for them and their story) or generous and collaborative (which is to say welcoming of the contributions of others and willing to let other people have the spotlight sometimes).
But if people would like to be more generous and collaborative than they know how to be, these things are worth discussing.
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WorkerDrone
Registered
Duke Attitude
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:06 am | |
A+ post. Good show Bart.
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:27 am | |
Guys you're supposed to have been logged in 24/7 since opening. Get with the program.
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WorkerDrone
Registered
Duke Attitude
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:30 am | |
Breaking Bad MUX is that way.
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Holmes
Dictator in Absentia
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:35 am | |
| Quote: |
| Now, the person used the death of a prominent leader to invoke sadness in their character's life and use it for interactions with others in their clan, and someone approached them or when they approached them issued the argument, as such, that they weren't "there" for those ingame events, so couldn't possibly understand or have the ability to feel sad about them, in a rather flippant manner. |
People who do this are dicks and should be noted to me so that I know who isn't getting RPP this month.
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Casper
Registered
Moon Ghost
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:30 pm | |
| Bartleby wrote: |
| ~improv theater jazz~ |
This is exactly the mindset I have when it comes to RPIs. Thank you for so eloquently stating it. Saying "yes, and" is the most vital part of making things happen around here.
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| Holmes wrote: |
| Tepes wrote: |
| I'll be like, 20-30 minutes late. BUT I WILL BE THERE. |
It's an RPT on an RPI, you're fine as long as you show up within 3 hours of the planned start time. |
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Kalopsios
Registered
Summer Intern
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Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:58 pm | |
| WorkerDrone wrote: |
| 4: Discourage. If you see someone do this, don't actively avoid this person. Try to find what's up with them, and if they continue to demonstrate qualities they should be admonished for, send them a mudmail. |
If it gets too terribly bad, you can also contact admins. As long as you do so in a calm, rational manner, we can help. Admins are able to look into things that you as players couldn't.
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