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HAL
Administrator
Senior RPA
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 Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:43 am |  |
Our IG leaders and RPers are amazing. Tread carefully.
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:53 pm | |
| Moriarty wrote: |
| I think an argument can be made that putting your best RPers into the clan lead position is not in the best interests of the game, OR those RPers. |
You could make that argument, certainly. There are many facets to running a clan, some of which require a bit of quick and dirty "getting it done" that generally isn't associated with people who are the "best RPers". However, I also think it's the case that the leader of a clan to a large extent is responsible for shaping the clan. If you have a leader who doesn't focus on RP, you're going to have a clan that doesn't focus on RP either. I don't think that's a good alternative, necessarily.
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Holmes
Dictator in Absentia
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:48 pm | |
Nothing's stopping anyone from making a move on leadership.
Nothing stopped anyone from making an application for clan leadership (of which we received a grand total of three).
Our current clan leaders aren't perfect (no one is), but they have a shitty fake job that they invest a lot of time in so that the rest of you even have something vaguely resembling a game to play.
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:56 pm | |
| HAL wrote: |
| Our IG leaders and RPers are amazing. Tread carefully. |
| Holmes wrote: |
| Our current clan leaders aren't perfect (no one is), but they have a shitty fake job that they invest a lot of time in so that the rest of you even have something vaguely resembling a game to play. |
Woah! Hold your horses gentlemen! I wasn't at all critical of the current clan leaders (how could I, I have no idea who they are?). In fact, my suggestion was quite the opposite:
That clan leading is often a job that has little to do with the quality of your RP, and the best RPers are sometimes not able to play to the fullest extent of their potential when burdened with the duties of running a clan - many duties of which are based on skills that have nothing to do with how good your RP is.
If anything, I might have implied that I thought your clanleads were too 'good' for the job.
Also, I didn't have the time to get into this in my previous post (dinner, bleh, I hate people), but, and this might address some of what Thorongil said, I think it might be best if one sets up clans in such a way as to have one person able to dedicate more time to the grunt work of clan leading, and another dealing with more RPintensive stuff.
Either which way though, I think I might be happier with 'Tread carefully' if I'd actually said anything critical of anyone. I've never been particularly shy with my criticisms, but really, there wasn't any here. At all.
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| The forum blight formerly known as Rivean | |
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HAL
Administrator
Senior RPA
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:05 pm | |
With forums, things can easily get misconstrued, particularly by others not in the actual conversation. My meaning is that I don't want any of our clan-leads to be seeing this and think we are critiquing their amazing work so far.
As for managing day to day, and managing your RP, I might suggest people appoint Quartermaster positions.
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:12 pm | |
| HAL wrote: |
| As for managing day to day, and managing your RP, I might suggest people appoint Quartermaster positions. |
This, precisely!
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| The forum blight formerly known as Rivean | |
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:45 pm | |
| Moriarty wrote: |
| HAL wrote: |
| As for managing day to day, and managing your RP, I might suggest people appoint Quartermaster positions. |
This, precisely! |
Or both. An official/head clanlead for a bit of everything, a quartermaster specializing in day-to-day management, AND an extra RP/culture specialized 'leader' -- who needn't be a technically 'leadership' IC position.
Certainly the original suggestion as posed wasn't meant to imply that an official clanlead shouldn't be roleplaying and fostering clan culture. 
But I do think also that even players who aren't officially in leadership positions can share the load not just in-game, but on the OOC clan forums as well, whether proposing ideas for snippets of IC history & lore, 'traditions' that might be retconned in, or new additions that their PCs wouldn't necessarily suggest or be in a position to implement IC.
(And I'm pretty sure I do know who at least one amazing clanlead is/was, too.)
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:24 pm | |
| thorongil wrote: |
| However, I also think it's the case that the leader of a clan to a large extent is responsible for shaping the clan. If you have a leader who doesn't focus on RP, you're going to have a clan that doesn't focus on RP either. |
This.
The mechanical aspects of leadership of a clan the size of a Rust Family are monstrous and potentially overwhelming. In order to free leaders up to actually RP, it helps immensely to delegate day-to-day resource and personnel management to other trustworthy PCs.
A quartermaster (and delegation in general) is a great idea verging on the necessary, for precisely the reason stated by Thorongil. If you want your clan to mostly revolve around collecting Stuff and moving it from A to B, then it's okay if your clan lead spends most of their time doing the quartermaster's job. But if you want it to revolve around RP, then that has to be what your clan lead spends a significant portion of their time doing.
Imo, having a Designated RP Mascot, while helpful for enriching the overall atmosphere, just won't shape the fabric of the clan in the way that an RP-focused clan lead would. This is really for the simple reason that people look to those with actual authority to show them how to succeed within an organization.
People want to feel successful, to be rewarded for their hard work, and to be acknowledged for their dedication. The game the clan leadership is playing determines what form expectations and rewards come in. When taking into account your environment and what's going on with other characters in a scene, and having a nuanced IC reaction, are all required to get your clan lead's attention and approval, existing members try harder to do that and others who are interested in doing that gravitate toward your clan.
IMO, it's virtually as blindingly simple as follow-the-leader. There will always be outliers, but the overall shape of a clan is going to reflect the values and interests of the leadership, if the leadership is active.
That said, it's a really difficult job and I think everyone is working really hard at it. They all deserve our appreciation for all the effort they've put in to making PRPI work.
If people are generally happy with the overall effect of that effort, then I'd say they're all set. If, on the other hand, there is some room for adjustment of precisely which direction the effort is aimed in, I think it's worth talking about what people would rather see happening, and how to get there.
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| I would prefer not to. | |
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:10 pm | |
| Bartleby wrote: |
| When taking into account your environment and what's going on with other characters in a scene, and having a nuanced IC reaction, are all required to get your clan lead's attention and approval, existing members try harder to do that and others who are interested in doing that gravitate toward your clan. |
Emphasis mine. I hope this was just unfortunately phrased, as supporting players who are still getting the hang of these things is surely as much a part of a clanlead's job description as anything else.
Now, the rest of the post I don't necessarily disagree with. Bear with me while I make a second attempt to articulate some of the reasoning behind my first suggestion?
No one's proposing, I'm sure, that a clan quartermaster shouldn't be RP-focused. Similarly, I doubt it can be expected that the titular clan leader won't ultimately be responsible -- like any manager -- for the tasks he or she delegates. Fundamentally, I think I suggested (or meant to suggest) (a) having a quartermaster and (b) giving the clanlead title to that PC.
Now, there are certainly reasons this might be unwise. It's quite likely that I was underestimating the power of both that title and the IC role it implies in making the PC who holds it the key RP example for a clan. Or, as it was put in the previous post,
| Bartleby wrote: |
| But if you want it to revolve around RP, then that has to be what your clan lead spends a significant portion of their time doing. |
So, why was I suggesting an additional RP-lead role? Why was I suggesting it even in a addition to a designated quartermaster?
Because I suspect, as hinted at above, that leading a clan is always going to be something of a "shitty fake job", no matter how expertly or extensively one delegates, as will serving as quartermaster, to whatever degree. And so I wonder if encouraging a few of those players who aren't willing to do it, who don't have the playtimes for it, etc. to take up less intensive and more varied roles (clan archivist, say, or some sort of PR person) along with a certain OOC responsibility to pitch in on matters of clan culture, might not bear some fruit.
Especially if the traditional clanlead roles only garnered three applications. 
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Roadhawk
Registered
We lurk inside your brain, we hide inside your mind.
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:40 pm | |
Give PC's positions within the clan, positions endorsed and approved by the leader of the family. If you 'meh whatever, do what you want' so will everybody else in your clan.
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