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HAL
Administrator
Senior RPA
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 Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:38 am |  |
Indeed.
Please give us some concrete examples of stuff that might raise tension. Not just categories of things 
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starsignal
Registered
just a page in someone's book
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Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:52 am | |
Okay, I just had sort of a half-baked idea that might not be a good one, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway.
Some have pointed out that in order to foster conflict/tension there needs to be an incentive, and that incentives are most effective when handed out from the top down (admin/clanleads). I don't think that has to be the case forever, but maybe to start. So here's the idea:
What if there was a series of RPTs that were exclusive to individual families/forced families into conflict with each other? For example, say in the last RPT the hovercopter only had a limited number of seats, enough for one family, forcing the clanleads to make a serious decision about their loyalties: either they go head-to-head and fight to get their family onto the craft, or they have to somehow mutually decide on each taking a small cohort, which would in turn probably piss off some of the characters who got left behind (and also create a much-needed sense of danger in getting back to Rust), thereby creating some conflict.
Or: An event in which a group of robots from the dead city want to make some negotiations, but they're only willing to do so with one family.
Situations like these would force families to compete against each other for the fun of the RPT, as well as whatever incentives there are to be gained from them. Of course, there would probably have to be a certain level of admin intervention to enforce fairness (i.e., the Niners shouldn't be left out of everything just because they're currently the smallest of the families), especially because we don't want people feeling like certain groups are getting preferential treatment on an OOC level, but what it really comes down to for me is that we need -some- kind of imposition that's going to force the families to divide their loyalties.
ETA (suggestion courtesy of Tag): It wouldn't even necessarily have to be RPTs all the time, but even if the admin threw out little scraps of plot development, giving different things to different families. This would provide a sense of purpose, and again, could create conflict if the families have conflicting information and start working at cross-purposes instead of together.
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Starmonger
Registered
Void Dreamer
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Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:30 pm | |
Dunno how that'd work, since both of those events seem rather unlikely
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Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:49 pm | |
| starsignal wrote: |
| ETA (suggestion courtesy of Tag): It wouldn't even necessarily have to be RPTs all the time, but even if the admin threw out little scraps of plot development, giving different things to different families. |
At its simplest, this might take the form of short rumor posts on the in-game boards, possibly even player-submitted/admin-approved, at least in some cases.
Turf? I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I have important-ish RL things to procrastinate on, so why not? First, a few snippets from the wiki:
| Quote: |
Turf:The New Guard and Block Nine live on opposite sides of the Hyperion Platform, occupying much of Rust's eastern and western slums respectively. The Red Company have claimed the northwestern corner of the settlement, rather close to the Niners' turf, but most disputes take place along the southern stretch of largely autonomous mini-communities. The poor wretches who live out there have grown used to having Niners come in and demand protection money one week only to see New Guard thugs roam around the next, harrassing the locals for a cut of their earnings. The Reds have also been known to wander about, frequently patrolling the long road encircling Hyperion and sometimes making opportunistic trips into the deeper slums to the south. Nobody has managed to claim this area permanently, but it is often taken advantage of by its powerful neighbours on both sides.
New Guard:The New Guard live on the eastern side of the settlement's outer slums, presiding over a long stretch of turf east of the Hyperion Platform. No other clan has made a permanent home on Rust's east side, and while the other denizens joke that this is because none can stand their arrogance, the New Guard take it as part of their lofty image to not bump shoulders with their rivals. They have done this many times in the past, however, and fought many bitter turf wars with the Niners before the borders were drawn. Though they once tried to seize control of the neutral market and claim governorship of all of Rust, they failed and have since turned their focus on business and posturing.
Niners: The Niners' turf is on the west side of Rust, directly opposite of The New Guard's with whom they fought fiercely in the settlement's infancy and still maintain a tense rivalry. Further north is the turf of The Red Company with whom they have fought little, but have long suspected of secretly aiding The New Guard in order to encroach on Block Nine's turf.
The Red Company:Starting as merely a small crew of ambitious slum-dwellers, they grew steadily until they were able to seize the old industrial district in the northwestern corner of Rust. |
Next, the map: The wiki suggests that shifts of reputation, influence, and possibly turf are most likely in the southern slums, and that seems a reasonable enough area on which to focus, the primary downside being that it borders only two of the three Family's home turf.
I don't think that rules it out (as a sole focus), but I am curious about the other white areas on the map, because there is one between each pair of clans: the aforementioned southern slums between the Niners and the New Guard, a small square-ish region between the Red Company and the Niners, and an intermediately-sized area between the New Guard and the Red Company (with the quirk that the Reds would have to pass through the market to reach it efficiently). Are these also feasible zones for competition? I'd have to defer to more knowledgeable parties on that count. (If the difference in the number of rooms each is a problem, it does look like the existing map might have room for some small retcons of addition and subtraction.)
What I would perhaps suggest even given my limited understanding of the gameworld is that all or most of the clans' current spheres be considered 'core turf', so to speak -- unlikely to undergo any significant shift without recourse to means greater than what a purely hard-coded system could reasonably be expected to handle. The hope, of course, is that this would serve to address the apparent imbalance created by the relative proximity of the Reds and Niners.
As for what a truly functioning system for competition in any chosen region would look like, I'm afraid I'll have to hope once again for the input of more experienced parties. I believe follower requirements for crafts have been suggested, and I assume they might be paired with long (+/- 15 min in total?) craft phases, but beyond that I've really no idea what has and hasn't worked in the past, let alone what might or might not in the future.
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wirsindallein
Registered
(ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧
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Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:10 am | |
| HAL wrote: |
Indeed.
Please give us some concrete examples of stuff that might raise tension. Not just categories of things |
I have got a few!
First:
As I've already suggested, change the turfquests to require a follower or two. I don't suggest more than two, because it would be a detriment to off-peak players, but this would require that we move around in groups.
Which would in turn encourage groups of characters to be roaming the incredibly unsafe, but not mob-filled, slums at the same time.
This might require making turfquests more numerous, but with smaller payout.
As a bonus, certain turfquests might even have a chance to spawn hostile mobs (maybe those two drunks who are always beating up a third sometimes decide to fight back?)
Second:
Find a reason to move the scrip craft out of the market. Maybe model it a bit on turfquests. I know, I know: I was complaining like crazy in the chat when I first thought scrips were like that. But hear me out.
Mugging indies? That's now a form of turfquest.
Providing protection to the indies who get to do scripquests on your turf (something which isn't code required for obvious reasons)? Now also a form of turfquest.
This won't create conflict through clans directly, no, but it will encourage some. Did that Red just beat up YOUR slummer? Give him hell. Stuff like that.
Third:
We need a resource to fight over. The above two suggestions basically directed that towards chips and scrip, but I'm thinking of something a bit more than that. If I recall correctly, each clan base has a power generator of some kind. Right now all that needs is upkeep with cables. Make it also require fuel.
Other clan-only items might also be given the same treatment. Make this fuel acquirable not outside of Rust but in the slums. Clans need to vie for control of those fuel-giving areas. If possible, as a clan grows and does greater and bigger things, they might require more fuel.
Running out of fuel? First the monitoring station goes. Then the mainframe. Then the lights. Stuff like that.
Four:
We need something special to fight over. This is far less specific because it's basically up to you guys to generate it with a plot now and then. Maybe an indie scavs and fixes up a laptop and- whaddo ya know, it's got a key to hyperion in it's code! Or a treasure map to some sort of vault!
Given how scarce scav is, and the new need for competition between clans, this is now very, very valuable. The clans are now competing over both that indie, and that laptop. As an added bonus, that indie finding the laptop drags in other members of the indie community. (Probably, since you get to choose who the lucky person is, you could pick whoever would be most likely to include others)
It's just an idea, really, but events that specifically require clans to compete would be cool beans and since you asked for something specific I threw that out there.
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wirsindallein
Registered
(ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧
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Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:40 am | |
EDIT: Spoiler tags apparently don't work. Sorry.
This is going to be a doublepost. Because I can.
I've noticed a few players here and there, in the chat and elsewhere, have said that they can't- or aren't- the type to create conflict. Maybe you have a naturally passive style, maybe you just can't get in the "asshole" mindset that you feel doing that sort of thing requires. Here are some things that have worked for me.
I want to preface this by saying that this is going to be fairly long winded. Since it will be split into sections, if you're interested you can search for typical things like "in summation." I'll try to put things in brief as I go.
I also want to add that I am not the best roleplayer out there, nor is this way of doing it. This is, again, just what works for me as a generally passive person who isn't really capable of holding a grudge. Still I thought it might help someone. Maybe.
I also tend to be fairly in-your-face with it. Subtlety isn't my forte. It's possible to be mean/aggressive without being loud, and there are plenty of characters who do this. At the end of the day, the best way to do something you yourself are not very good at is to look to other people who do what you would like to do. There is no shame in following an example.
First, I think that being the sort of person who creates tension and conflict requires a sort of OOC mindset. The biggest part of this is being willing to lose a character. You should always have faith that the other players won't go straight to code until their hand is forced, just as, I'm sure, you would not. That being said, you still need to be willing to accept a loss. I understand many people have trouble with this. I do myself.
This can require a bit of narrativist thinking. It's how I deal with it, in any case. If you aren't familiar with GNS theory you can find it here. In general, it helps to view each character as a vehicle. You are not your character, your character is not you.
Will the death of that character still hurt? Of course. It likely will, anyways. At the end of the day, however, they are both a story in-and-of themselves, and a character in the greater story that is this RPI. Some characters are quick vignettes, some are novellas. Some, such as Elias of ARPI Fame, are great sagas. Just like any good book or movie, that story must eventually come to an end. That end, for many characters, is death.
Essentially, if you can put yourself in a mindset wherein the death of a character means not the loss of a person, but the end of a story and the beginning of the next (your next character, that is), letting go becomes much easier. So will putting those characters at risk through conflict.
For some people, that's not really an issue or goes without saying. For others, it might be very useful to try and think that way. Next, you need to find things to get angry about. This can be simple, or it can be difficult. It could be that you have been a member of the New Guard your whole life, and so view anyone who isn't as rabble worthy of disdain. Perhaps you came across a member of another family beating a prostitute, and your mother and sister both happen to be prostitutes. Maybe you are simply very protective of a certain section in the slums where you grew up, or maybe that guy is just giving you lip.
All of these, and others, are valid reasons for your character to dislike someone or become angry. These reasons may shift and change based on the situation, but in general if you play often enough you will eventually find something to get angry about. So you have that. Your character is angry. Now what?
Here comes the fun part. You need to commit thought crime. You need to be irrational. Let's go with the "someone is giving you lip" example. Would it be better to be the bigger person and respond calmly? Certainly. Would it help to bring in their clanlead in the hopes of getting them to fall in line? Of course.
But you are not rational. Indeed, you are an ignorant Ruster who has lived a hardscrabble life, regularly fighting to survive. This guy doesn't know what you've gone through. (He does, he's also a Ruster. But remember: You're irrational) He doesn't know who you are. Just who the hell does he think he is? If he wants to talk smack to you, you better talk some back. Hell, maybe you should threaten to break his nose. That will show him. Who cares if his Titan buddy is standing right next to him? This guy deserves it, someone needs to do it. Why not you?
Basically, act from your gut and stop to think about the wider ramifications later. It might hurt a bit, or it might not, but you're sure to have a bit of fun in the process.
Finally, just play your character. Not all of my characters are the rabble-rousing sort, and yours might not be either. But if something happens that might be worth starting something over, I think everyone, including yourself, would prefer at least an emote indicating discomfort over total silence.
In summation (because I had to use it, it being an example an all): Be irrational, be angry, don't be afraid to "lose," and trust your fellow players.
And, again- This is just what works for me. Maybe you'll be able to glean something useful from it.
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starsignal
Registered
just a page in someone's book
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Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:52 am | |
| wirsindallein wrote: |
Maybe an indie scavs and fixes up a laptop and- whaddo ya know, it's got a key to hyperion in it's code! Or a treasure map to some sort of vault!
The clans are now competing over both that indie, and that laptop. As an added bonus, that indie finding the laptop drags in other members of the indie community. (Probably, since you get to choose who the lucky person is, you could pick whoever would be most likely to include others) |
Thiiiiis. I've seen some really exciting plot lines in other games that started with just one person -- they can end up really spreading into different "exclusive groups," or even across the game as a whole. Obviously you'd want to choose a PC who seems inclined to involve others in plots, but I think this can be a really fun method of plot development, and it makes the individuals involved feel special, which encourages them to RP more and is good for the game atmosphere as a whole.
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Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:55 am | |
I don't want to post anything long, but, wirs:
Your examples seem to involve copious application of the stick, and very little carrot indeed. Many of the game systems are almost all stick, as is, and I'd probably get rather worn out if I were to see more added without first trying out some carrot-centric systems instead.
Does that even make sense?
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starsignal
Registered
just a page in someone's book
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Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:03 am | |
I don't think making some resources more difficult to obtain necessarily needs to be equated with punishment. Yes, as players we've gotten used to a certain standard of living with our characters, but the world is dynamic. I don't think requiring a couple of extra hands for turfquests, for example, is a bad thing, nor that most other people would view it as such. It's a code mechanic that would ostensibly give people a new reason to RP with each other, and apparently some people need system motivation to that.
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Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:37 am | |
Eh. On the turfquests thing? It feels like chips are exceedingly difficult to come by, and almost all of them get funneled straight into gold/other stuff for the fams. So there's not much of an actual CURRENCY in chips. Which is bad.
I'd say adding more hands would be a bad thing. A more reliable method of injecting chips or requiring something more challenging but also more rewarding than walking around in circles to get them would still probably be good.
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