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 Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:34 pm |  |
| grandpa wrote: |
| TL;DR: Work with, not against. It's not about the ending, but about the journey to get there. A journey of two weeks of effort was shattered in ~24 hours, and I can't quite say anybody's particularly impressed by the 24-hour journey. |
This, this, a thousand times this. And, really, I made as many mistakes in this event as the next guy. But not the guy after that. Screw the next next guy, nobody likes him. Just kidding, but seriously. I think -most- people involved were inexperienced. It's a learning exercise, and we'd be doing the MUD a disservice if we don't take everything we can from it so that things are better next time.
Any retaliation for something that happens IC. Any counterplot. Any anything, really. Should have the same amount of planning and effort and RP put into it as the occasion that necessitated it. Regardless of the IC desire for an immediate response. Realistically, if not codedly, doing what was done should've resulted in a lot more injury and death on both sides. If somebody puts two weeks of work into creating a means by which to engage in non-PK conflict, please. PLEASE. Put at least that much work into stopping them. Otherwise, what are we here for?
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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:30 pm | |
Guess I'll throw my two cents in. And try to remain mostly calm, but just fair warning that I'm still livid and miserable.
I think PVP conflict on a scale of what just happened has /no/ place in this kind of game. As an RP Intensive game, your interactions with others (at least for me) are mostly what define your character. And now you have a large portion of the playerbase where your interaction will mostly consist of how much you hate and ignore that person. This isn't RP anymore. This is a misery simulator.
Player death can still have meaning and impact your character. But forming up the murderball when concerted effort has been made to keep things deathless is just poor escalation.
I guess I'm kind of rambling now. My point is going to boil down to: I joined up to play an RP focused sandbox/building, player vs environment game with actual consequences. If that's not what the playerbase wants, then I can't really say this is a game I'll be interested in playing for much longer.
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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:08 pm | |
What, three people died? Documentation says a lot worse usually happens in Rust and getting gunned down without warning isn't an uncommon thing. It's a shitty way to die but when conflict happens getting PK'd is a possibility. Especially when you're like 'this is what we're doing and fuck you surprise'. IDK how stuff went down personally but hey, there's only so much talking you can do.
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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:16 pm | |
| Matt wrote: |
| What, three people died? Documentation says a lot worse usually happens in Rust and getting gunned down without warning isn't an uncommon thing. It's a shitty way to die but when conflict happens getting PK'd is a possibility. Especially when you're like 'this is what we're doing and fuck you surprise'. IDK how stuff went down personally but hey, there's only so much talking you can do. |
Yeah the mud doesn't feel like canon, the amount of wars and people dying isn't nearly as much as canon says it probably should be.
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grandpa
Registered
Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:18 pm | |
| Flincher14 wrote: |
| Matt wrote: |
| What, three people died? Documentation says a lot worse usually happens in Rust and getting gunned down without warning isn't an uncommon thing. It's a shitty way to die but when conflict happens getting PK'd is a possibility. Especially when you're like 'this is what we're doing and fuck you surprise'. IDK how stuff went down personally but hey, there's only so much talking you can do. |
Yeah the mud doesn't feel like canon, the amount of wars and people dying isn't nearly as much as canon says it probably should be. |
And I'd be entirely okay with that, I think it's--again--just a case of it being hard to find an excuse that fits characters other than "he killed my pappy," replacing dads with whatever you care to. I don't know how many people are trying to create those, but I don't see much incentive to try.
You're making fair points, but you're missing the point in general: there's less of a problem with death, and more with a general confusion at lack of time and effort being put into finding reasons for it.
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| It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. | |
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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:08 pm | |
| hobos wrote: |
There was just a thread a while back about how to have enjoyable PvP conflict, and it was widely recognized that people were just afraid of getting PK'd, and the best way would be to enjoy the PvP while trying to keep from killing - and if you did kill another character, to try to ensure it was done in a meaningful and satisfactory way (i.e., take a little time to roleplay it out if you can).
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I guess this was my hangup. I mean- I'm fine with brutal PK. We did real clan wars back in the day, ya'll, with serious code intending to kill people.
But when everyone clamors for PK less PVP, and then a half effort is given? I don't know. I can't blame the leaders, because gloryhounds, PK kiddies, and bloodthirty dudes abound. I've experienced that a shitload.
Maybe it's because I thought it was pretty cool that an actual PVP street combat ended without any casualties- but then saw that it just absolutely couldn't be left that way. At least where I stand from, it's what I always think happens with PVP- instant escalation because everyone wants to 'win'. Everyone wants to be the badass that sends the other guy packing, and no one likes getting their nose bloodied.
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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:39 pm | |
Okay, so. I wasn't there for the vast majority of this RP conflict, and in no way do I want to press my ideologies on other people. But, that said, here's my two cents, from what I heard in the aftermath:
Characters who are able to sway with the blows tend to be successful, well-fleshed out PCs. If your character will only be viable if this ONE thing goes exactly this one way, then you're being a bit two-dimentional, and your RP will be worse because of it. This was particularly showing in the ending of the conflict, in which some PCs had a very "my way or the highway" attitude. In these situations, I don't know if it's just a PCs attitude or if there was some OOC feeling behind it, but we should also be thinking about the other side's feelings at this point, and their enjoyment.
What I mean by that is, if there's only one choice, and it's a pretty shitty choice for one side, then how is that supposed to be even a little bit fun for that side? If you were on the losing side, would you feel like you were able to have fun in this situation, or would you just feel immensely frustrated and annoyed? Would you be happier if you had two choices, instead of one hard decision?
My whole point is, Rust is a game. We're playing a game, with other people, and other playstyles. We ought to at least put some effort into making it an enjoyable experience for everyone, rather than just frustrating and annoying.
tl;dr, have some consideration for other players, when it comes to PVP, and think about their fun as well.
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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:56 pm | |
I am with the murderball statement too.
I for one really feel this quells any and every sort of contructive "sandbox" type or rpts or Rp because a murderball will roll through. If it affects other pcs or not, it doesn't matter.
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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:02 pm | |
| Lowdy wrote: |
| I for one really feel this quells any and every sort of contructive "sandbox" type or rpts or Rp because a murderball will roll through. If it affects other pcs or not, it doesn't matter. |
Can you elaborate on this point a bit? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.
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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:40 pm | |
Look. Want to know who started this entire PvP? One of the people who got lost in this PvP, threw a one line emote and started the fight.
Ain't nobody but that person responsible for going straight to code, more or less.
Blaming it on anyone else is bullshit.
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