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Chazz
Cute and Cuddly Coder
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 Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:48 pm |  |
Another problem related to this is that players don't know how they're supposed to RP. Somebody gets a moderate to the cranium. Technically, they might be looking at a 25 percent loss of their total HP. But most people shrug moderates off as not being important or severe.
Not to say the code should tell you how to RP an injury, but it should give you a vague idea. I'm definitely tired of seeing an underwhleming amount of RP of wounds that are actually serious.
Either way, I'm looking at both systems currently, and things may or may not be changing.
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:09 pm | |
it's hard to see how much 25% of your life is. Any sort of wound, no matter how small will drop 1 star of even the toughest of fighters. It just indicates your not full health, and I get that. But without a number to show how much Hp you have, it's hard to gauge. Some Pcs can go down to 2 stars during a spar or fight but still be standing. Others drop at 3 stars from trauma damage.
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:51 pm | |
I honestly ignore most wounds that aren't at least severe.
However, I make a point of RPing out the wounds at severe and higher, usually with permanent followup in scarring or some degree of debilitation.
But here's the thing.
When grandpa's referring to it as a strawman argument, he's really hitting the nail on the head. Matt's argument is: "people are running around getting shot four times and getting lazored so it's k then being action hero badasses and it's jarring," (funnily enough, THIS is a strawman) right? It's a strawman because that's not what's happening, and if it was what was happening, it's massively lacking in context. A strawman argument is when you ignore the other side's position, set up an artificial one for them that you CLAIM to be their standpoint, then argue against that regardless of what they say.
So let's kind of work around the strawman argument, and look at the context being left out, and see where grandpa's coming from?
| The Strawman wrote: |
| "People are running around getting shot four times... |
With refurbished hand-made low-caliber firearms that fire rounds made out of gold, one of the softest metals in existence, while often wearing ideally armoring of kevlar grade, or unideally, metal-plated leather."
| The Strawman wrote: |
| "...and getting lazored so it's k..." |
Because plasma treaters are a medical double-threat of diagnostics and treatment the like of which really just doesn't exist in modern technology, being used to treat injuries caused by shoddy firearms constructed at a technological level that's easily a century or two behind the treaters themselves.
| The Strawman wrote: |
| "...then being action hero badasses..." |
Despite having to make willpower rolls against the urge to fall down and cry in the corner when the gold starts flying, despite having the injury take a significant chunk out of one's combat ability according to their willpower, and despite being down a chunk of HP that ultimately varies in severity depending on one's constitution.
| Matt wrote: |
| It's jarring. |
Sorry. Just not seeing it.
Granted, I might easily have missed some grievous or horrific or terrific wounds. But most of the time I see those IG they're RP'd normally. One also needs to account for all of the time that was spent triaging combatants before moving on. It's a fair assumption that some PCs, after taking moderate injuries, move on to the next fight reinvigorated after receiving future-tech medicine and pain-killers?
The fact is, weapons are the one thing that's really been held to lotek setting-wise.
Armor's been pretty well held to around modern-tech.
Everything else is pretty fucking advanced.
I don't think it's any surprise that people are doing "jarring" things when you have futuristic medical technology being used to deal with injuries caused by centuries-old weaponry.
CONTEXT, PEOPLE.
In fact, let me just share with you guys what .25 caliber rounds look like, just from a random google search. Then imagine these being made out of the softest metal possible. Against modern armoring.
Now let's just uh... compare that with these:
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:22 pm | |
I had a terrible once with a previous pc. Lost his sight in the eye. I was SOOOO mad, cause it was the pc's first day! I try to rp accordingly, but when a severe gets treated down to a small, I rp that it's still REALLY messed up, just able to do menial things depending on where the wound is.
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:27 pm | |
On the other hand, there is something I -do- find jarring.
That's a group of people storming a building through a firefight, and then stopping for (technically) 4 IG hours to medic themselves up before moving on to the next floor. Does time compression answer -some- of this? Yes.
But overall, I always find it somewhat immersion-breaking when people pause progress to start medicking when there really probably -isn't- time for it, ICly. While time compression -contributes- to this, I think people are relying on it to explain more than it ought.
I -would- be strongly in support of some sort of separation of the medicine and first-aid skills into two separate commands with similar functions. A first-aid command that functions similar to treat presently, but with more stringent limitations (and should probably -cause- rather than -prevent- infection), and then a medicine command that works as a more effective treat, but requires notake tools, or an indoors room, et cetera to perform without receiving huge nerfs to your chance of success.
Realistically, first-aid and medicine are entirely different beasts, and I think it would be a boon to medical PCs for the two to be treated as such codedly.
What we'd be seeing from something like this is people being forced to make CHOICES.
Do they get first aid, and power on through their injury, despite the first aid treatment possibly making it take longer to heal in the long run? Or do they fall out to a designated medical area and get seen to in a way that provides less immediate benefit but significantly faster long-term recovery? It probably depends on the injury and it's severity. YAY.
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Chazz
Cute and Cuddly Coder
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:14 pm | |
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grandpa
Registered
Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:48 pm | |
I think my major issue is that you guys aren't going to ever have your cake and eat it too. But you want to.
You won't ever have fun guncombatplay, and also 'realistic' medical RP. I don't see how you can honestly merge the two.
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Terminobber
RPA
Elfin Slavemaster and Santa double
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:02 pm | |
Again I feel I must restate myself and how this is in no way opinion of the admins and this is not us trying to govern that you should rp being all weak and withered after getting shot once or twice. Yes I understand that the game's medicine is technically 'advanced' and that plasma treaters are our future tech that gives some leeway for some feats of recovery. I was simply putting to word some concerns that some members of the community had over how the medical rp was done. If any of you took this personally, I apologize as this was not the intention in the least.
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:16 pm | |
Wasn't taking it that way, but given recent IG goings on it seemed that might be coming up!
I don't think there's anything wrong with players discussing what they like to see regarding medical RP, by any means, though.
If people would like to see combat taking more of a toll, that's perfectly understandable.
I just think that sometimes people tend to err towards the extremes, rather than the medians.
Personally, I do think that PCs that RP out going out and being injured, sometimes severely, taking a serious toll on their characters through other RP is extremely important, and also well done by many of our players.
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:16 pm | |
No, bullets aren't pellets. When a wound is severe, it's severe. I've seen people just snatch bullets out of peoples skulls that are laying in the market. Pulling a round out of someone's eye etc etc without a bunch of RP is just really bleh to me. Yea plasma treaters are a high-tech device but I really don't see them as a machine that repairs veins or ligaments or other very difficult medical work. They close up gashes and cuts. I'm just saying it could be stepped up a lot.
I can see how you can merge the two myself. Oh shit, I got shot really bad... get the fuck out of combat and get to a doctor. I'm not talking about that lodged shit in your arm or barely damaging your torso. That makes sense. Serious bullet wounds though? Please.
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