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Roadhawk
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We lurk inside your brain, we hide inside your mind.
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 Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:08 pm |  |
Then the game no longer has the right to call itself roleplay intense.
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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:01 pm | |
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| I think the model of a character who sits around and waits before they can RP is pretty much a dead concept. |
Absolutely.
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I think every character concept should be capable of going out on runs and not be a weak spot. Otherwise, communications between players just gets more and more strained.
No more non-combatants. Regardless of how it's been modified, the core of this game is going out and fighting shit. |
Please no D=.
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It is the main driver that powers every last lick of RP that occurs. It's how staff structure their events, too.
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Unfortunately, yes.
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| If you're going to put hard barriers in front of players, gamers, and expect them not to break them, to just give up and walk away, you're only being obtuse. |
The issue here is partly that Matt/Brainwright(and maybe others) are creating a false dilemma/false dichotomy. It's not "either you talk to things or you kill things and there's no inbetween." That's untrue. Part of the fun roleplay that spawns from these issues is on what side you fall, and what is the 'right' choice, whether or not PCs go for it.
That said, when was the last time a Staff NPC adversary gave PCs any out other than hurting it? I honestly do not believe that if the 'RPT' had gone purely social/involved only talking to the 'adversary' that the PCs would have found anything out/gotten a positive resolution beyond "Fuck you go away." ICly it's hard to argue with the fact that generally we're given adversaries that are either generally mindless/non-human, or non-negotiable past a certain point. It's unfortunate, but seemingly true(in my limited experience). I can't call it unfair when PCs are presented with a death on 'their' side(and let's call this what it is: about six or seven, maybe eight or nine IC deaths by now, two Reds, two Indies, one New Guard, and three Niners that I can count) attributed to one region in general, and then somehow judged for returning death for death once they come across a logical, accessible culprit. People cried foul when Bruce was around, claiming that he was existing purely to squash all resistance/play 'fuck-all-noncombatants,' but you'd be the first to defend him, Matt: why is it that when someone else, either rationally or irrationally, uses force where words could've been used, it's a crime/bad roleplay?
I will agree with one thing: how we structure the game(combat-centered) has a rippling effect on the 'rest' of the game, because like it or not, combat _does_ create roleplay. Like nothing else in Parallel, combat has created roleplay. Political intrigue gets shut down/ignored(both intra and inter-Family politics), economic/business roleplay is generally pointless, scarcity doesn't exist, parties are only rarely successful, and we've only had three non-combat RPTs ever put together by players.
Though, whatever Matt says, this culture of "fuck noncombatants" is a double-edged sword. It ought to be levelled at noncombatants as equally as it is at combatants: outside of one Niner party, one planning party that went nowhere, and Rust Central News's holoboard(less an event and more cultural), what proactive, obvious-to-all 'events' have even been suggested, much less _run_? Get off your asses and create some roleplay, people. Read a self-help book rather than pretending that there's a player-led culture that ignores you.
RE: Roadhawk, this is pretty pointless(because you literally never do anything but snipe at Staff, players, or the game as a whole), but absent changes in Staff, how do players fix this? Absent changes in players, how do the Staff fix this? Absent changes in the gameworld/how it's structured, how do we all fix this?
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| It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. | |
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:07 pm | |
Right. What Grandpa said.
Mostly this:
| grandpa wrote: |
| Get off your asses and create some roleplay, people. Read a self-help book rather than pretending that there's a player-led culture that ignores you. |
When Matt talks about PCs not following up on severe injuries and providing medical roleplay, I have absolutely no clue what he's talking about. I usually RP treatment with whichever medical PC is handling it over the course of at least a few real days. Usually a real week, with severe injuries. Most other PCs do the same. I see more PCs RP injuries WELL than I see RP them poorly.
When Roadhawk complains about not being able to find parties interested in RPing, I have no idea what he's talking about. I have a handful of people I RP with regularly, and when my PC's out and about, even just walking home so I can finally go to sleep, I stumble over RP and parties looking for it at every turn.
This perspective that the game is severely lacking this or that sort of RP, or players are completely botching this or that sort of RP tends to, in the first place, be inaccurate. But in the second place, it's bred by a way of playing the game. Alternatively, it can come from playing off-peak, too, but I don't think that's the case here.
Let's talk about PROACTIVE versus REACTIVE RP, folks.
Joe Camel is a new character to the game. Joe Camel creates, finds his family headquarters, finds a room there, and makes it his home. Joe Camel sends out notifies every thirty minutes to an hour, but goshdarnit, he just doesn't get any responses, and ultimately decides that nobody in his family, or the MUD as a whole, is interested in RPing.
In reality, Joe Camel is being reactive. In fact, playing the way Joe Camel does is the -reason- why people like Joe Camel don't think there's much 'RP intensiveness'. Joe Camel doesn't interact in RP unless he's interacted with first. He will respond but he won't initiate. When he does initiate, he often gives little to fuel a flow of conversation. There's nothing -wrong- with playing in this way. The fact is, sometimes people just can't focus on the game. The problem, though, is that many players just don't know any other way.
On the other hand, we have The Marlborough Man. The Marlborough Man hits the ground running. When he gets into the game, he never seems complacent sitting in a room without other players. When he absolutely cannot find players, he finds something to do revolving around his skillset, and uses thinks and feels while doing it. But most of the time, he's running around puffing on Marlboroughs and looking for people. And when he finds them, he initiates the RP, he provides a reason for interest in talking to him. He goes out and -finds- and -makes- RP. He is the proactive RPer. When he gets more familiar with the game, he starts to organize groups for various events. He -adds- to the game.
Do we see the difference?
Reactive RPers are -consumers-. They take the game as-it-is and enjoy it for what there is without adding (significantly) to the gameworld themselves, beyond the existence of their character. They RP, but somebody else has to create the situation leading to the RP, the reason for the RP, et cetera.
Proactive RPers are -producers-. They go out and create RP at every turn.
Now, drawing the tangent back to the discussion of medical roleplay. Proactive players behind medical PCs and combat PCs alike FREQUENTLY go out of their way to RP injuries and traumas as significant events. Whether it be a medical PC scheduling follow-up treatment, or a PC coming for a checkup on their own later. Or having complications arise from the initial treatment. These things HAPPEN (regularly).
If you're not SEEING them happen, it's because you're not MAKING them happen.
Now, keep in mind. I'm not categorically saying some players are strictly reactive and some are strictly proactive. We're all a mixture of both. But if there's some sort of RP you WANT to see, sometimes you have to put it forward yourself to see it happen. And most of the time it's happening and you just don't see it yourself.
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:27 pm | |
A few things:
Combat-medic is a roleplay concept too. A lot of what I'm hearing so far is 'screw those guys, only treat in proper sterilized environments'. Should follow-up treatment be a thing? Absolutely. How do I do that when I RP out being injured going to sleep doing everything properly, then go to bed RL... and wake up with my character at 100% again? The system itself has to support the RP you want otherwise there's no point in having the system. Having different types of treatment available based on location is a great idea to start making the divide, I think.
Can someone give a concrete example of what the crafted medical treatments in game /are/? Because you have advanced technology 'goop' that literally knits bone and tissue back together, a glove that fires sterilized plasma to close and fill wounds and has an onboard diagnostic computer. These are how these materials are played out and thus that's how people in the game /treat/ them. If they're supposed to be something else, we need to know- and it would be nice if the description of the object reflect that instead of being the most general thing ever.
Also, the RPT that caused all this? 100% a combat RPT. There was no other outcome. They refuse to talk or even pretend to respond to civil overtures. We get attacked for approaching their position. We attempt to /leave/ and get attacked. At no point during all this did I see any other option than to press on. Realistic expectations were that doing otherwise gets us shot down in the street.
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:46 pm | |
| Brainwright wrote: |
I think the model of a character who sits around and waits before they can RP is pretty much a dead concept.
I think every character concept should be capable of going out on runs and not be a weak spot. Otherwise, communications between players just gets more and more strained.
No more non-combatants. Regardless of how it's been modified, the core of this game is going out and fighting shit. It is the main driver that powers every last lick of RP that occurs. It's how staff structure their events, too.
If you're going to put hard barriers in front of players, gamers, and expect them not to break them, to just give up and walk away, you're only being obtuse. |
Seriously? Do you not wait around to go out and kill those things? If you think the core of this game is going out and killing things I don't think you understand the game.
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:07 pm | |
I agree with MAtt! Some of the best PCs I have met are non-coms!
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Chazz
Cute and Cuddly Coder
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:45 pm | |
I think this thread is getting a little crazy.
-A new system is in the works. The MAIN GOAL of this is to differentiate between combat medics and actual doctors. BOTH are getting fresh and new things.
-Non-combat RPT's are and will be a thing. If you are sad there hasn't been one recently, I'm sorry. It's noted.
-The code going behind this isn't going to tell you how to RP. Is it going to nudge you and remind you if you're severely injured? Probably.
-Is it going to restrict what you can and cannot do? In very severe situations, yes.
-Is it going to make a combat medic not be able to treat people? No.
-If they try to sew sombodies head on in the middle of an abandoned factory with a shitty med kit, will bad side effects be a thing? Probably.
-Will medicine be reworked? Yup.
The goal, or at least the -original- goal of this being posted was -supposed- to just be a reminder to RP out the severity of wounds. It -wasn't- saying every situation is wrong. If you're on a run and you do a quick few emotes and patch them up, no fucking problem, people want to move on.
Overall, this system is changing. A lot of them are. In an attempt to try and fix things like 'the game is only combat focused.'
As always, the goal with changing this code isn't for the code to dictate everything you do, and how you have to feel. It's to -support- the player and give vague reminders. So this thread is going to get locked down, given most of you have little to zero knowledge of what's changing, and I think people are misunderstanding each other.
If you have an issue, message me, or any of the other Staff. I appreciate the input on the RP/system, but I think it's grown past that.
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