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 Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:02 pm |  |
| Blue wrote: |
| I simply suspect that some may feel they're going out on a limb, and perhaps playing something they aren't comfortable with, and if they go ahead and do it, and are subsequently ignored in favor of the ultra-femmes, it's not going to work out in the long run. |
I completely agree with everything you say but I think there's something here that MUST be addressed, lest our discussion fall prey to more stereotype delerium:
Part of the problem is equating femininity with weakness (which I know you're not actually doing [because I know you and know you were just being lazy  ], but it must be said).
This is something that players of female PCs do, and something that players of male PCs do. Femininity itself is not weakness itself, it is perfectly possible to be feminine and strong (and there is at least one PC I can think of in the game who exemplifies this very well), and players who want to play feminine PCs need not assume that this means that their PCs must also be weak.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a "masculine" female PC (I personally adore them, as much as some other people adore the sex kittens), but there is equally nothing necessarily weak about a feminine PC (dude, talk to Ellie), male or female.
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| I would prefer not to. | |
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:04 pm | |
I think there's room for compromise. My character, if you talk to her and she's not kicking ass, is hella girly. Hates blood, dislikes dirt, will go into the sewers but freaks out about the nasties after.
But she also shoots people. So.
I don't remember the point of this. I'm tired.
Oh, right. Compromise.
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Bones
Registered
Horsecorn
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:11 pm | |
There's also a whole area between fragile girly-girly and badass warrior. I think both extremes are fine, and can definitely add flavor to the game, but (and this is applicable to male characters as well) it'd be great to explore the full spectrum. Though I think it's too early in the game to worry. Personally, I haven't even met a fraction of the playerbase yet.
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| No, I'm not THAT Bones. | |
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:29 pm | |
It's really not so coarse-grained as "play a fragile PC" or "play a warrior". There absolutely is gender dimorphism. That's fine.
I've done my best to articulate my point, but I'll try to break a few things down a bit:
It's Rust. It's a nasty place to live in. Reaching adulthood is a success in and of itself. Most PCs should be capable of a measure of self-sufficiency. Fragile PCs have little place here. That's not to say that they won't exist; I guess a particularly sheltered sort could grow up within a Family.
Another point is that I despise the spillover of OOC attitudes and negative stereotypes into the game. I don't think that's unreasonable. It creates an uncomfortable atmosphere.
And re: female PC warriors: I guess I'm qualified to pass an observation regarding these.
Bet. First, a thought on appearance: had she not taken up arms aboard the Phoenix (in her background), no doubt she'd have been 'a statuesque, pale-skinned redhead' as opposed to 'a sinewy, viciously-scarred woman'. She'd still have been a damn strong character either way. That wouldn't change. Granted, though, skillwise, she was the best PC fighter alive for quite some time, the best doctor without exception, and for a time, especially after Sal's death, the de facto head of the fighters on Atlas. Yes, she had to be a fighter for that. Except so would any male PC in the same position, so there's that.
Elizabeth, meanwhile, achieved her position, such as it was, by simple strength of personality and force of will -- again, though, she did fight, when it came down to it, although she was far from the best ever.
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:05 am | |
Throttle: IT WAS ME! That person! Ego demands it.
I don't know that pretty description has a lot to do with anything, man or woman. I mean, I can make an uggo PC and pull just as much e-tail and interest as I can a hottie. Why? Because I hate being boring and people get drawn to that like flies.
I understand the point and the frustration, but it can also go so many ways with male PCs and their own variety of vapidness and readiness to thugfight to the max. They just have combat to help cover it up. To me, people just kind of go background no matter what their desc if they don't own into it. It's kind of like real life-- you can know someone is hot and also know they're uninteresting and vapid... then it's just decor and you don't fall for their stupid crap (ideally). Females are going to have wiles. It's historic. It's futuristic. It's tradition. Men are going to fall for those wiles. But they still should be played well.
There's lots of bottom lines that have been addressed well here, but it all kind of boils down to one thing for me when I think of characters and concepts: Rhyme and Reason. Be soft, be hard. Be pretty. Why are you so well-maintained and pretty? Was it your backstory? Is it because you make your living off being pretty? That's okay. Pretty happens. So does buff and oversurly and everything else that tends to be overdone in RPI's.
Be anything you wanna be. Just make sure you own it. Be interesting and make all your pieces fit.
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:36 am | |
Consider that creating a super skilled, super strong female that could actually physically overcome a super skilled, super strong male without using a gun is pretty unrealistic in a world of humanoids.
Sorry, girls...Rust is not politically correct nor is it a fantasy world where mere humanoids are endowed with supernatural powers. It's gritty, it's dirty. It's about survival. How does a physically weaker individual survive in an existence so raw? She or he uses whatever advantage comes natural.
I personally adore the girls of the New Guard. However they endear themselves to the group - each one truly desires to contribute - and most are doing a great job without pretending they could actually physically compete with the males. I imagine it's that way in the Reds and Niners as well. Brilliant rp.
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Tyrant
Registered
Benevolent Despot
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:47 am | |
One thing that has always amused me with the damsel in distress and delicat flower characters is that they usually live for a very long time and as this is a game, end up with truly beastly skills. I often wonder how they keep the act up when their combat skills are superior to most combat characters.
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wirsindallein
Registered
(ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:48 am | |
| Shy wrote: |
| Consider that creating a super skilled, super strong female that could actually physically overcome a super skilled, super strong male without using a gun is pretty unrealistic in a world of humanoids. |
I'm sorry, I'll try to remain civil about this, but--
The reason this thread was made was to discuss the prevalence of such inherently false and harmful stereotypes inhabiting the gameworld, and why that should not be. Either you're a troll, or you're a legitimately terrible person.
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:49 am | |
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Holmes
Dictator in Absentia
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:51 am | |
| Shy wrote: |
| Consider that creating a super skilled, super strong female that could actually physically overcome a super skilled, super strong male without using a gun is pretty unrealistic in a world of humanoids. |
Yeah, sorry, no.
This is my world. As far as the game is concerned, women and men are equal. Your character can be as sexist as you want, but, I utterly and violently disagree with this statement, and anyone trying to claim that 'women are naturally weaker than men' is just wrong. Plainly and completely.
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