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 Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:47 am |  |
I think whether or not I am having an off-day probably makes no difference in how my PC acts on runs, though last night I had a lot of OOC stuff going on. Usually, ICly, my PC has little to no interest in the ongoing conversations. OOCly, by the time I think of something to say and type it out, usually the moment has passed. Large group conversations have the tendency to do that for me.
If scavving was not required for crafting, I would not go. I don't enjoy scav runs. They are boring, and the run small talk doesn't really interest me. It's usually small talk, or at best low level drama. The act of going to scav in the same places over and over again is ICly and OOCly repetitive.
There's not a whole lot to fight over right now. Yeah, I know people will say make your own drama, but I'm a pretty reactive person and don't find much to react to right now. RPing stepping on someone's toes only goes so far if you don't have an IC reason to go as far as the Jalthans. As an example.
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:28 pm | |
There is no reason for conflict. Plenty of supplies, plenty of gear. Why fight and ruin a utopia? That is, at the moment, what Rust is. All the flavor you like can say otherwise, but I think when you want armor and it is a matter of timers and not a matter of supplies, there is a problem. I quit going on scav runs for the most part because afk for 4-5 hours except for typing in 'forage' is beyond boring. If you want to fight you need .089. ping or so to type in hit lagato before anyone else, and someone else is just going to rescue the second the mob hits you anyway because they want to fight and screw you. And after I quit going on scavs, there...is not much else to do. There is no plot to react to. Make one? How? Everyone is out on 40-man scav trips. I find myself playing IRE games again because their world changes more than this one, and I am all kinds of frustrated about this and I have no idea how to fix it.
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:48 pm | |
| kog wrote: |
| I quit going on scav runs for the most part because afk for 4-5 hours except for typing in 'forage' is beyond boring. |
This, of course, is entirely your fault. I can't quite tell if you're acknowledging this or trying to pin it on somebody else; if it's the latter, please don't.
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:51 pm | |
Well, we didn't predict that people would form unopposable alliances and go scavenging with the whole playerbase several times a day every single day for two months. It's pretty difficult to encourage conflict and scarcity under those conditions. When we then try to represent the resources getting depleted, we get complaints from people who are unhappy that the amount of loot they get has been reduced. It's impossible to balance when the system has to accomodate both those who play two hours a day and those who play ten and spend most of that time vacuuming every corner of the world for mobs and loot.
We're in this strange situation where we as admins have to be responsible for 100% of the conflict and intrigue because the playerbase has collectively decided to eliminate any form of enmity amongst themselves, completely at odds with the documentation that we wrote in the hopes that it would give people some inspiration to occupy themselves a little while we develop the rest of the game.
There is a plot, but we're less than two months into a game that was rather hastily put together for the benefit of the players, and we do need you guys to be open to the idea of conflict that isn't crammed down your throats. We have a hell of a lot of work to do and would frankly like to see some initiative that isn't just hoarding or building. It seems to me that every time something happens, it's urgently stamped out because it gets in the way of the scav runs. We're very sorry about that, but I don't really think we're entirely responsible for that state of affairs.
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grandpa
Registered
Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:06 pm | |
| Rome wrote: |
With all the spam going on in the window, as well as the length of some of these trips, and for some of the other reasons mentioned above, don't you think people deserve more credit than that?
You must be a very superior caliber of player yourself since you feel this way; do you think some of us are working toward where you are? Maybe you could help the rest of us by thinking up a way to provide some engaging RP during these trips. |
People have been. The problem hasn't changed. It's been around for weeks. I'm afraid to say that, yeah, it's 100% the fault of people not emoting/not bothering when it's a group of 20 people out doing something that only results in 6-7 people emoting. There wasn't even a significant amount of spam, either.
| Throttle wrote: |
| Well, we didn't predict that people would form unopposable alliances and go scavenging with the whole playerbase several times a day every single day for two months. |
The problem is that we don't have a zero sum world, we have a world where a rising tide floats all boats. I understand that documentation was written as X, but it's hard to play towards that when the basic fact of "cooperation gets me what I want" is staring someone in the face.
| Quote: |
| It's pretty difficult to encourage conflict and scarcity under those conditions. When we then try to represent the resources getting depleted, we get complaints from people who are unhappy that the amount of loot they get has been reduced. |
Like I've said: ICly, we need an excuse to create fun for combat/scavenging PCs. We need an excuse to give them a reason to exist. It's less about loot and more about an -actual- reason to have any excuse to find conflict.
RE: On the issue of scarcity vs. nonscarcity, it's just how the scav system works, especially without haggle there to balance it out/remove a large amount of chips/hides from the world(and then chips aren't scarce) and the ability to scavenge gold bullets. There's no scarcity, save for in very specific materials(pipes) or for large degrees of raw materials required for specific projects. And I guess here's my questions, or the questions I think you need to ask yourselves, when trying to address the blatant, obvious problem of mudflation:
Do you want us, at best, to be losing resources, coming out even, or gaining resources?
Do you want, at worst, to be losing resources, coming out even, or gaining resources?
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:48 pm | |
Never mind. Things are probably too far gone for starting wars, if it hasn't happened yet.
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:52 pm | |
perhaps I am overstating the effect of wildlife, but I have seen people with near superhuman constitution and titon-plate armor get a grievous wound on a lagato crit hit (which isn't that uncommon). That says to me that if I took out a half-dozen guys and we got unlucky with a couple lagatos (or, pleasegodno, had two at once), we would almost certainly lose people/have people at near-death for a good part of the scav. This does NOT make me want to go out there with less than 15-20 people at the minimum.
Also, Grandpa has stated the other concerns far, far better than I ever could.
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grandpa
Registered
Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:02 pm | |
| Kristina wrote: |
Re: Rising Tide Floating Boats- Too OOC. Sure, working together gets things done, but as you’ve said, it's against canon. That’s the tricky part, but what makes this all so much more fun: we should really, really hate eachother. Years of screwing eachother over have cemented this into the culture. |
I've said it's against documentation, which has little if no effect on how the game -actually- plays, which always has and always will have a greater effect on how people interact ICly. Anyone who ever played Shadows of Isildur would come to know quickly that while documentation is nice, you need to craft how the game world -works- around it, or it won't matter.
| Quote: |
| People should say the wrong thing, someone should get punched in the face, maybe even a couple shots fired over heated words. From what I can tell, this is not happening, or is super hush hush. Tensions should always be running high when Family X works with Family Y. |
Has happened and literally been posted about on the Boozer board. Multiple times.
| Quote: |
Re: Creating fun for combat/scav PCs – See above. Start spreading the hate. Wars have a great way of banding people together, giving PCs purpose, a sense of pride, and accomplishment.
Combat PC’s will have their hands full with shit to do. Scavvers will stick to the sewers, and be super-duper excited when that rare run goes out (between pvp violence). Thus, no boring scav run, and all sorts of new gossip/mourning RP due to PC deaths. |
I can't really think of a 'war' from Atonement that didn't really just suck balls for one if not both sides. They aren't fun. They don't really band people together ICly or OOCly(and if they did we'd probably hear people complaining about 'unbreakable alliances'), and they really aren't as exciting as one might imagine.
People've -tried- to engender chances for interclan rivalry, and these go blatantly ignored by a majority of the pbase. A -scav run- is the perfect chance to -get- this interclan rivalry, because it's got people from every clan. You should be interacting. You should be making it not boring. You should be the change you're hoping to see. Play it as you want it to be.
Clan conflict exists in-game, even between 'unbreakable alliances,' it's just that nobody's bothered to get up off their asses and -do anything about it-. Especially those who would profit the most sit on their asses, whining OOCly and ICly about how they're cut out from things, when they could be capitalizing on tensions that exist very publicly in-game.
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| It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. | |
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:03 pm | |
well, the major problem with this whole culture of conflicting Families? We were given, in very short order, a set of enemies that required the entirety of Rust to overcome, in addition to needing multiple Families working together to go out and get materials. This created a bonding experience among PCs of different factions, and now? Now that person A is friends with person B from another Family, they aren't going to want to shoot them, and will work behind the scenes to work out any conflicts that may arise. The attitude of most of the clanleads to smooth over problems with other Families only encourages this.
Now, I know that many people get off on conflict, but so many others do NOT, and don't want to live in constant, unending fear that anyone not flying X colors will plug them in the back when they turn around. To them, its stressful and not fun except in short bursts.
Now, I know what some may say, with the "well, you don't have to take it to deadly violence" argument. This argument is valid and a good one, but sadly, so many PCs, when confronted by a guy who wants to beat him up, will simply pull a knife or gun in an attempt to stop him from doing so. The lack of trust that the other person won't escalate leads people to either A) not do it at all, or B) do it preemptively at the first sign of trouble in order to avoid being killed. This is unfortunate, but I don't see a way around it with gun combat being an instant way of making any fight super-deadly if they happen to be outside the market.
Nothing unites people like having a common enemy, and since we got one pretty early on (in terms of bandits and wilderness), we have, for better or worse, stuck on each other. Also, lastly, there is the fact that people simply love to RP with as many people as possible, and semi-friendly or friendly RP is less stressful and prolonged than adversarial RP for a lot of people. It may be OOC related, but then again, your OOC self likes to have fun with this game, so people are going to do that as long as they find interesting people in other Families.
Also, emote more on the damn scavs. I know its hard, god knows I've skipped out on my share from fear of boredom, but it really does help with that, especially if you can find a new person to RP with. Anyway, just my two cents on that, I am hardly a saint in that regard.
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| "your job isn't to die for your country, it's to make some other poor bastard die for his."
- General Patton. | |
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:12 pm | |
| grandpa wrote: |
| Rome wrote: |
With all the spam going on in the window, as well as the length of some of these trips, and for some of the other reasons mentioned above, don't you think people deserve more credit than that?
You must be a very superior caliber of player yourself since you feel this way; do you think some of us are working toward where you are? Maybe you could help the rest of us by thinking up a way to provide some engaging RP during these trips. |
People have been. The problem hasn't changed. It's been around for weeks. I'm afraid to say that, yeah, it's 100% the fault of people not emoting/not bothering when it's a group of 20 people out doing something that only results in 6-7 people emoting. There wasn't even a significant amount of spam, either. |
The OP is on the right track by asking for input and opinions on how to fix this. The only additional thing that I can suggest, when it comes to the direct issue of responsiveness, is to just continue trying to be the change that you want to see happen. I think that people would be happy to return RP when given a good chance, especially given the monotony that usually is scavenging.
Although, sometimes someone might not see good RP as a chance to actually RP, especially when if the opportunity is presented as a challenge or IC criticism to the character.
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