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 Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:46 pm |  |
I didn't read the whole thread, but I got the idea...
The reason the scav runs are boring is because yes, you gather up 20+ people and sometimes take hours to do it. After standing in a room for a hour while people come up and then run to grab something at the base over and over.... I kind of get tired of it and stop really trying before the run even leaves. You don't have to wait for every single person ever that might go to show up and give all this extra time for them to show up. Announce something and go for it. Not to mention the snail slow pace when you treat anytime anyone ever gets injured.
You do -not- need twenty people to leave the gates, that's just ridiculous. The groups barely ever even get hurt anymore and you're way to overly cautious, people are supposed to die sometimes too by the way. But to get around that fact the super alliance since day 1 of open was formed so everyone can just march around in one big happy group. That's why shits boring.
Wildlife isn't much different then it was in Atonement... and as Bruce I would take out groups of 4-5 and walk all over the damn place. Most of those people had master combat skillz, but still. I even took out groups of -3- sometimes to walk to the factories or even Carthage.. I mean I had to abandon two of them to their deaths one time but hey oh well. You have this insane misconception of how dangerous shit is.
Shit was real interesting in Atonement before... you know why? People got murdered. No clans were actual allies there was just an uneasy understanding of what would happen if actual war happened. Actual war happened. All that shit was a blast and it was because the clans were on bad terms. Mainly because of a lot of murder. Murder. Oh, murder.
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grandpa
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Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:56 pm | |
| Matt wrote: |
| tl;dr but I know what people meant |
Except don't, but it's okay: I've got the tl;dr version for you.
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The big groups aren't really a matter of safety. They're a matter of trying to involve people in something, as opposed to giving them nothing at all.
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First line of pof James's second post.
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Except then I'm excluding large swathes of the rest of the playerbase from getting to go do and do anything themselves, and instead consigning them to sitting on their thumbs.
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Bolded for emphasis.
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| Were either of these big groups to just go and say 'Nope' to the prospect of others joining in on their activities, they may as well be just pissing on other players' fun, never mind what their characters might think. |
Bolded, underlined, and italicized, because the point was missed three times over already!
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| It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. | |
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starsignal
Registered
just a page in someone's book
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:58 pm | |
| Darkblade wrote: |
On behalf of pof James:
Recently, there have been ten to twelve New Guard characters present for runs, all well-armoured, and I'm sure this group could accomplish a bunch of stuff by itself. Except then I'm excluding large swathes of the rest of the playerbase from getting to go do and do anything themselves, and instead consigning them to sitting on their thumbs. |
No, you're not. If you not inviting other people out results in them sitting on their thumbs, that's their own problem. You're the leader of the New Guard -- that means the New Guard is your first priority. Let the other clanleads and the staff worry about making sure the game is fun for everyone else (beyond common courtesy and logic, of course).
If another clanlead were to actually initiate some conflict by way of exclusion at this point, I would probably jump out of my chair with excitement. And then I'd go ask my clanlead what we're going to do next.
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:02 pm | |
The question was why is it boring and why does barely anyone ever RP on them... that's why. Force people to make their own fun sometimes and don't take everyone. -Exclude large swathes of the playerbase-. Stop going against documentation and holding hands because it makes it so no one dies. I got the point and I'm just pointing out why it's boring.
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grandpa
Registered
Entrenched Oldbie
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:04 pm | |
| starsignal wrote: |
No, you're not. If you not inviting other people out results in them sitting on their thumbs, that's their own problem. |
That being their own problem(whether it is or isn't--and it isn't) doesn't have any effect whether or not he is consigning them to that. What you mean to say is, "Yes, you are, but you shouldn't care."
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| You're the leader of the New Guard -- that means the New Guard is your first priority. |
If you're actually saying what you just said--that pof James hasn't put leading the New Guard as his first priority on his PC--then that's a damn shame, because I think that is his first priority, IC and OOC.
| Matt wrote: |
| The question was why is it boring and why does barely anyone ever RP on them... that's why. Force people to make their own fun sometimes and don't take everyone. -Exclude large swathes of the playerbase-. Stop going against documentation and holding hands because it makes it so no one dies. I got the point and I'm just pointing out why it's boring. |
You didn't get the point, because you didn't read, elsewise you'd've caught on and addressed the point on its own merits rather than trotting off on a tangent about how badass Bruce was when wildlife AI was in effect(ask someone if it's in effect anymore) and how much things would be improved if people were killing eachother/how unopposable/unbreakable this 'alliance' is.
You still aren't addressing the point(re: nobody's emoting on scav runs), spectacularly so. When 20 people go out and 6 people RP, it's not because it's boring--it's because people aren't trying. They can, but won't.
ETA:
| Matt wrote: |
| Stop going against documentation and holding hands because it makes it so no one dies. |
You're not even reading your own posts, at this point, much less others. "I get the point but it's still about what I say it is, not what the player posted."
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| It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. | |
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:19 pm | |
I did address it. The scav takes a hour to gather, it's incredibly slow paced(not a leaders fault when there's 20 people), and there's 20 people. It takes so long to get together and there's already so much spam from there being so many people no one tries. Being bored from waiting around, the slow pace, the spam. Once again, don't take the whole playerbase. That's your problem.
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:31 pm | |
Admins have said they're working on a change. All that we can really do, at this point, I think, is bare our teeth and grin and trust that any future changes will take the game in the right direction.
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wirsindallein
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(ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:35 pm | |
| grandpa wrote: |
If you're actually saying what you just said--that pof James hasn't put leading the New Guard as his first priority on his PC--then that's a damn shame, because I think that is his first priority, IC and OOC. |
I doubt that's what starsignal was saying- and far be it from me to disparage someone who is in the admittedly difficult role of a clanlead- but I am going to say this:
Aside from the basic courtesies that come with being a good player, there is absolutely nothing anyone needs to do in regards to people outside their own clan. If this leaves people sitting on their thumbs, that's for the clanleads of THAT clan (and maybe staff) to deal with.
People keep getting offended by the mention of an "unbreakable" alliance. Maybe those accusations are being made in the first place because clanleads are bending over backwards to do the job of their inactive counterparts.
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:36 pm | |
| grandpa wrote: |
| Rome wrote: |
| Quote: |
I understand you're trying to say something, I just don't understand what: people don't see it as a chance to RP when you're challenging or criticizing them ICly? |
Yes. |
I'm literally not having any more fun with my PC/any more engaged than when he's miserable, broken, furious, enraged, dismayed, embittered--any of those. To hurt is to live. Conflict is the basis of a lot of roleplay. |
I whole heartedly agree with this.
Conflict also encourages character development below the surface. That is to say, internalization, which may or may not be seen externally. Depending on the character and the type of conflict, it may also encourage avoidance.
So, it is the basis of a lot of roleplay; however, not always in a way that spices up specific scenes like scavenging trips, to bring this back to the original topic.
My main point was to be the change you wish to see. I understand you feel frustrated and tired of trying this. That is unfortunate. If you are too tired to keep trying, perhaps a viable solution will come from this thread, if we as a collective player base can focus on a solution, and not on complaining. Complaining is usually a poor motivator for everyone involved.
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:59 pm | |
(Ignoring all the stuff about OOC "unbreakable alliances" and lack of family conflict, because those aren't the point of this thread.)
| grandpa wrote: |
...When 20 people go out and 6 people RP, it's not because it's boring--it's because people aren't trying. They can, but won't.
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I agree with you for the most part! If all 20 people went and made a real effort at immersion/shaking things up, they'd all have a lot more fun. But there are contributing factors that lead to that inactivity. They are bored before it even begins, they don't feel as comfortable in massive groups, banter gets old, etc.
So can we acknowledge everybody should try harder to play during runs while also trying to make things less boring from the get go? We should try.
For instance, most people seem to prefer smaller groups when it comes to RPing on scav runs. For smaller groups to be viable, we'd need more leader types taking pressure off the clan leads so 20-character runs aren't necessary. I don't mean to suggest people be dangerous if they're not into it, but trying for more smaller-but-still-safe groups could help.
On a similar note, Matt suggested not waiting for everybody who can possibly make a run to come. A lot of frustration seems to come from leaders taking a long time to try and provide fun for the most people. While an admirable goal, waiting sucks and a few calls on the radio before dipping out would suffice.
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